>>/39855/
> With technology you can live independently
Independently? No, you can't. Why do you think Kaczynski started to mail bombs? With small scale technology, yes, you can live alone in a natural way. But not with big technology such as generators, because they require support and are built with complex tools, you can't find a replacement part in the wild, and if you seek for support you pretty much depend on technology.

You can be a hermit and live alone, but you will never be independent. It does not matter where you go, everything is covered with laws and borders, that exist thanks to technology. Technically, laws and borders are made up by humans, sure. But objectively it is the technology that allows it in the first place, and people must always follow what technology allows to do to survive, if they don't they will be conquered by those who do, so either way they end up in technology. The initial cause. 

Also, we have only one tribe left intact with civilization, and it already seen the helicopters and boats, so not really even intact. There is no place to hide.

> The state, led by the government restricts your freedom
And why does state exist? Civilization started with technology, it started with the first state. State is built on the ability to accumulate power and resources in one place for a long time, which is simply not possible in hunter-gatherer societies with very primitive technology.

> out of greed (for ads)
And why do ads exist in the first place?

> or to make themselves feel powerful
And why do people feel powerless?

> Technology does not advancing for 50 years now
It advances constantly, next serious breakthrough may happen in like 100 years or more, but that does not mean it's stagnant. Consumer technology always advances slowly. You look in a wrong direction, people actively work on genetic engineering and military.

> Creation of social networks is that, social, not technological advancement
Communicating instantly over the globe in real-time mode? For me it is pretty much a technological advancement. This is what turned media so cancerous, and now media basically rules the world, imposing propaganda with quadruple power.

Sure, it is people who make up the propaganda. But you miss that people pursue some interests, goals and actions that exist only within technological system and cannot exist outside of it, such as accumulation of billions of wealth, law enforcement, arms race, geopolitics, et cetera. You miss that technological system creates that need in the first place, and creates many more needs such as an urge to express suppressed emotions, power and freedom, and then we, the people, create the outlets for such people, not looking at why they need these outlets in the first place. We create them because it is the only logical solution that exists within the system itself, within the system which is the cause of the problem in the first place.

> it's just your abstraction of tools
This is why it is an abstraction, because being that large and complex is starts to behave like an entity, serving its own interests. This is what it is about: it does not matter how you change people's mindsets, if they are enslaved by technology they will have to be compliant with it, they must pull the levers and build the machines, they must behave in a way that does not break the system and benefits the system, in other words they must be the slave of the machine - otherwise it will just break.

It is an entity because it is not just a collective of minds that behaves randomly, it is an entity that behaves in a very specific way, produces our whole cultural environment and ensures its survival.

> Zeitgeist existed without modern technology
Technology is not necessary to be modern, modern is just the most easy and obvious to talk about.

Really it feels like we hit the wall here and just look at different directions repeating what we already said, so for me it will be the best to stick to each others opinions and be done with that.