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>>/2524/ And that is why the Sunflower Temple astral construct by the top of the Babel's Tower astral construct do the job just fine. We treat them as real, so they are real to the spirits also. It may be schizophrenia to some, but those on the astral don't care about human diagnosis', if enough of us think it is a temple on the Babel's tower, it has to be, so they go by that. What's real? Does it matter? If you think it's real, it is real. That's all there is to it with magic. Doubt on the other hand will make it ineffective, so most people in the modern world cannot practice. It's so simple. The double-thinking in 1984 does explain how to do this. Just accept the scientific view which is all doubt and lack of faith, then accept that nothing is real, then accept that whatever you hear is also real. Add in whatever you need to believe in and it doesn't matter if it conflicts with what you decided to believe earlier. Being mentally consistent by logic is the biggest impairment in magic. It would make it close to impossible to get results of any kind, and that is why science makes such slow progress. Burn the straitjacket of logic and you can do anything. Now watch the logical people scream and yell over what I just said, YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO DO THAT. Or don't, because if they did that they'd get banned. This is a nice board.