"That's What They Did In The Soviet Union, 'Show Me The Man, And I'll Find You The Crime'" | By Jack Fink | Geoff Petrulis | CBS 11By Jack Fink

DALLAS (CBSDFW.COM) – Civil Liberties attorney Alan Dershowitz said Wednesday that he is fearful of the criminalization of political differences in today’s discourse and that he doesn’t think special counsels are the right way to approach criminal justice.

Dershowitz spoke to CBS 11 political reporter Jack Fink about Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation into whether the Trump campaign colluded with the Russians to affect the outcome of the 2016 election.

“I think the investigation should end and I think the Congress should appoint a special non-partisan commission,” said Dershowitz. He said he thinks a Congressional committee would be too partisan.

“That’s the way it’s done in other western democracies,” he continued. “They don’t appoint a special counsel and tell them to ‘Get that guy…’ that’s what they did in the Soviet Union. Lavrentiy Beria, the head of the KGB said to Stalin, ‘Show me the man, and I’ll find you the crime!'” That’s what special counsel does.”

Dershowitz was quick to point out that he was not making a direct correlation between the United States and the former Soviet Union. “I’m not comparing obviously the Soviet Union and the United States. We have structural protections in our Bill Of Rights but it’s going down the wrong direction.”

“The issue of criminalization [of political differences] has not been subject to rational discourse,” said Dershowitz. “Democrats hate when they politicize and criminalize political differences against Democrats… when they did it with Bill Clinton. Republicans hate when they do it against their people… President Trump. But each one supports it when they’re against their enemies and partisanship prevails over principle. It’s very hard to have a reasonable discussion.”

Dershowitz said that citizens should fear the direction of this investigation for their own sake. He warned that today criminalization of political differences appears – now – to only affect presidents and political leaders. “Tomorrow it can affect you and me. If you give the prosecutor the ability to stretch the criminal law to fit a target, it’s very dangerous.”

Dershowitz said that special counsels are not the right way to approach criminal justice. “When you appoint a special counsel you give them targets and you say, ‘You better get that guy or the people around him…and we’re going to give you tens of millions of dollars. And if you come up empty handed you’re a failure.'”

Dershowitz said that if an ordinary prosecutor goes months without finding a crime then “that’s great, no… there have been no crimes committed.” He says not so with a special counsel. “Special Counsel always has the goal of ‘getting the people.’ They’re going to find crimes, or they’re going to manufacture crimes or they’re going to stretch the criminal law to fit the ‘crimes’ because they’re not going to come away empty handed.”

Dershowitz was asked what he thinks should happen now. Should Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein curtail the investigation? “I think Rod Rosenstein needs to say to the special counsel, ‘Do not investigate the private finances of the president before he became president; do not investigate his relatives; do not investigate his sex life.’ Don’t do – to President Trump – what Ken Starr did to President Clinton,” said Dershowitz . “It started with Whitewater and ended up with a blue dress. That’s not the appropriate way a special counsel should operate.”

Rosenstein appointed Robert Mueller as special counsel after Attorney General Jeff Sessions recused himself from any existing or future investigations of any matters related in any way to the campaigns for President of the United States.

Dershowitz had some strong words for Rosenstein. “I think Rod Rosenstein is concerned more about his reputation than anything else. I don’t understand why he’s not recused,” said Dershowitz. “He is the key witness in the firing of Comey.”

Dershowitz said if he were President Trump’s lawyer, Rosenstein would be the first witness he would call asking him, “Rod Rosenstein, you wrote the memo… you justified the firing… explain how you justified the firing. Did the President tell you to do it? Did you tell the President to do the firing?”

Dershowitz said the American public is quickly losing faith in the justice system and he called that a terrible, terrible tragedy. “We need neutral objective people administering justice. You can’t have an FBI agent like Strzok who is writing messages saying ‘oh we have to stop Trump from becoming President.'”

Dershowitz was referring to text messages between FBI employees Peter Strzok and Lisa Page, a senior FBI lawyer who was also working on the Mueller team.

During the campaign, Strzok led the investigation into Hillary Clinton’s use of a private server while Clinton was Secretary of State. The texts sent between Page and Strzok were dated between August 2015 and December 2016, the duration of the campaign. They raise concerns about Strzok’s impartiality and were likely to prompt more questions about the investigation into Clinton’s server.

Strzok was dismissed from Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s team in August, 2017.

“The American public insists that justice not only be fair, but be seen to be fair – appear to be fair. You need the appearance and the reality of justice. We’re not having that today,” said Dershowitz.

Dershowitz said he thought Trump should not have fired former FBI Director James Comey in the way that he did. “Look, Comey should have been fired. I think Clinton would have fired him had she been elected,” said Dershowitz. “[Comey] did a terrible, terrible thing during the election and he may have influenced the election. That’s not the job of the FBI. He should have been fired but I think it was a mistake for the President to fire him in the manner that he did,” he continued. “I don’t think it was illegal – I think it was a constitutionally authorized act – but I think we wouldn’t have a special counsel today if not for that firing.”

Dershowitz said he sees absolutely no evidence that there was either collusion between Trump and the Russian government and/or obstruction of justice. “I would think by this time there would be some public disclosure of any such charges,” said Dershowitz.

“Collusion – if it happened, and there’s no evidence that it happened – would be a sin, it would not be a crime,” said Dershowitz. “It is not a crime to collude about an election unless there are payments made, or violations of the federal law involving gifts to campaigns from foreign governments. But collusion itself is not a crime.”

“I think that the president cannot be charged with obstruction of justice for exercising his constitutional authority. He has the authority to fire anybody in the executive branch – the Supreme Court has said that.”

Regarding a possible impeachment, Dershowitz said “no one knows” whether or not there has to be a crime committed by the President – while he is in office – for him to be impeached.

“I believe the Constitution says what it means. The Constitution says in order to be impeached, the President must have committed bribery, treason or other high crimes and misdemeanors,” said Dershowitz. “I take that seriously. And I don’t think a President can be impeached for doing something that isn’t criminal.” He said he did not think President Bill Clinton should have been impeached either.

Dershowitz said he believes that no party should take up impeachment unless they are sure they can remove the President.

“You don’t go after the President unless he’s committed an act which would warrant removal. And for that to happen, [there] would have to be wide bipartisan support,” said Dershowitz. “There is no bipartisan support for impeachment of this president today.”

Dershowitz said he has taken a lot of heat from friends because some of his positions appear to “help” President Trump. “I didn’t vote for President Trump, I voted for Hillary Clinton. But I’m going to be honest about the law, whoever is the President.”

Dershowitz was in town to speak before the Institute of Policy Innovation’s Hatton W. Sumners Distinguished Lecture Series Wednesday. The Institute of Policy Innovation is a free-market think tank based in Irving.

He also talked with CBS11 about how it’s likely the census citizenship question issue will end up at the U.S. Supreme Court.

Follow On Twitter | Jack Fink | Geoff Petrulis

Comments (56)
  1. tngilmer says:

    There need to be more sober minds like Dershowitz.

  2. Yet, the Trump “Witch Hunt” continues.

    1. Mike McNulty says:

      I will take Dershowitz without nausea when the welsh pays the money he owes Finkelstein.

    1. Karl Kolpin says:

      Wait until the Soros Clan is in town. And add Sacramento to the list

  3. There are many things I disagree with Dershowitz on but here I agree just as I did with the whole blue dress Clinton. This wit h hunt with Trump is by far the worst this has ever been iin my lifetime. It is something you would have seen in Soviet Russia. It has indeed been a stain on the American justice system. Never before has there been such a un American reaction to an election with no actual evidence of a crime. Totally political.

  4. Carl Mertz says:

    Well said and well written. What is missing is Washington DC understandings that the USA tax payers own this Nation and are very close to taking out of there hands soon.

  5. Dear Mr. Dershowitz, what do those pictures of you and friends actually show?

  6. Dan Klein says:

    I couldn’t agree more with his main point about “show me the man and I’ll find the crime”. Mueller has a big staff of Democrat lawyers with unlimited time and money to go after Trump for pretty much anything he wants. Is that how our government is supposed to work? What we’ve learned more than anything is that the top levels of our bureaucracy in DC are corrupt and too involved in trying to get Democrats win elections, and less concerned with doing their jobs for the American people.

  7. Paul Roberts says:

    Dershowitz – In other words if a Liberal breaks the law (Democratic Party) don’t do anything. If a conservative breaks the law – Hang them high.

  8. Charge the POTUS or move on.Stop spending Tax money.

  9. Let it continue for every new President, or get rid of the fishing trip now. Dems like it but squirm when it’s their own so it goes both ways. The guy is right, this isn’t healthy for a nation.

    1. Dershowitz. is correct. Anthrax Bobby needs to go. Bobby’s record of dealing with the Anthrax, Solyndra and Uranium 1 cases demonstrates unquestionably that he is an arrogant doofus and a possible criminal, himself. Sessions is protecting him by refusing to either have Rosenstein fire him and by refusing to appoint a Special Counsel to investigate Mueller’s complicity in the above cited cases.

  10. Cam Kirmser says:

    “We have structural protections in our Bill Of Rights”

    Do we?

    Ex-Justice Stevens is advocating repealing the Second Amendment. The Fourth Amendment is being regularly ignored and the Tenth has been invisible for almost 100 years.

    I hate to say it, but the Bill of Rights is just paper. If no one backs it up, its not going to defend itself on its own. We only have the Bill of Rights for as long as someone fights and wins to protect it.

  11. Doug Day says:

    Everyone knew this “investigation” was for the setting and springing of perjury traps. All his findings have zero to do with his original mandate of “meddling and collusion with Russia”. It’s time Rosenstein grew a pair and ends this now to keep it out of the upcoming election cycle.

  12. JJ Marquiis says:

    Why is he saying this isn’t like Russia. Of course it is. You don’t have a man elected President then provide a special counsel of people who hate him to find a crime. Whatever happens, I blame Jeff Sessions for all of it. He had so many avenues to correct this and he didn’t.

  13. How do you go from war hero to #1 attack-dog for Saul Alinsky’s protege? Somewhere along the way, Bob Mueller switched sides. Ho Chi Minh would be proud of his former adversary. Forward, Comrade Mueller!

    1. It should be obvious to any logical, unemotional, observant of the political scene that both Mueller and Rosenstein are doing the work of the the Obama/Clinton Democrats and the RINOS. Either Sessions is either an airhead or a sly mole positioned by the Democrats to do their bidding. In either case, he is the wrong man, in the wrong government job at the wrong time.

  14. Chuck Costin says:

    Anthrax Bobby still hasn’t questioned or indicted a single democrat. Evidence against the democrats and Hillary is so overwhelming that Helen Keller can see and hear it.

  15. Sorry Alan, I’m pretty sure Mueller was special counsel before Comey was fired.

    1. Sorry, Josh: But you are wrong! Comey was fired on May 9th and Mueller was appointed on May 17th. If you READ COMEY, he claims to have leaked (illegally) in order to prompt a special counsel against President Trump. He didn’t count on Trump actually firing him!

      After being fired, Comey then used an FBI jet to fly directly back to DC (from LA, where he was scheduled to speak to FBI recruits about conduct) which shows the degree of his elitism and expectations of being treated “above the law” and with special consideration. Comey is a piece of work and he is treading on dangerous ground. He shows appalling judgment and should never have been the Director of the world’s premier investigative body.

  16. Gary Drake says:

    Dr Dershowitz,
    With due respect and in all seriousness. What will you do when they come after you, your family, and your peers? Whom will you depend on to help you out of the predicament? Will you stay and fight, or catch the first flight out to freedom? Myself, I will stay.

  17. Didn’t this “journalist” listen to Dershowitz to begin with, what did he need a translator ? Yes, after all everyone is guilty of something. Neutral, objective, this is Washington and what party controls Washington?

  18. It should be obvious to any logical, unemotional, observant of the political scene that both Mueller and Rosenstein are doing the work of the the Obama/Clinton Democrats and the RINOS. Either Sessions is either an airhead or a sly mole positioned by the Democrats to do their bidding. In either case, he is the wrong man, in the wrong government job at the wrong time.

  19. Kim A Kirk says:

    The left love their show trials…

  20. If Heir Mueller really wants to find a criminal conspirator, all he needs to do is go to any men’s room and look in the mirror.

  21. JD Yank says:

    Every single person that Mueller and his boys detain or subpoena in this worthless political probe just need to ask a few questions right off the bat…. Am I being arrested?? Am I being charged with a Crime?? No?? Then I’m not saying sh*$ to you and you can kiss my Arse!!! I’m out of here!!!!! End of discussion……

  22. I am sorry Mr Dershowitz, But Hillary Clinton really does belong in a federal penitentiary for multiple felonies despite Lynch’s and Comey’s conspiracy and obstruction of justice not to indict her. Start with using her office as Secretary of State racketeering by soliciting monies in the tens of millions for quid-pro-quo favors such as the Russian Uranium deal for $145 million through a Russian bank to the Clinton foundation and being laundered and unaccounted for -and the $500,000 to Bill Clinton for a speech in Moscow that there is no record of ever being done. Racketeering and money laundering are felonies. Mishandling classified information is a felony. Obstruction of justice by destroy subpoenaed evidence by destroying her secret server and 30,000 emails is are multiple felonies each count. Perjury under oath to Congress is a felony. Bill Clinton while a principal meeting with AG Loretta Lynch was both obstruction of justice and conspiracy by both when AG Lynch had a federal court order sealing a Clinton Foundation records until March, 2018. Former FBI Director Comey is also part of this obstruction of justice and conspiracy when he took direction from AG Lynch to stand down and kill an investigation before he even interviewed a single witness.

    The Democrats also are in full damage control mode with the aid of the MSM to distract from the corruption of the Obama Administration from the WH to the DoJ, FBI, and CIA and they are desperate to protect Obama and Hillary Clinton who are fully complicit in trying to interfere illegally in the last election by direct contacts and payments with foreign agents like Steel by the DNC and Hillary Clinton campaign and indirect contacts with the Russian agents for a falsified dossier.

    The mantra for can’t we also just get along doesn’t cut it when there is an ongoing coup detat to unseat a duly elected President by the Democrats and the deep state with the aoid of the mainstream media.

  23. The witch hunt continues. Liberals are the modern day fascists. This is the swamp telling outsiders and game changers who is boss. Disgusting

  24. Mark David says:

    After the last decade of our Marxist friends on Left, especially in the last two years, is their any doubt that the Democrat party is full of Communists, radical Leftists, Marxists and Stalinists?

  25. “…when they did it with Bill Clinton…” Here Heir Dershowitz make a moral equivalency that makes the rest of this opinion invalid. Try again, Heir Dershowitz.

  26. Carl Mertz says:

    Muller’s FBI thugs just told someone that someone that if you lie to the FBI that is a felony. Now how in the hell can that be when Hillary,Comey,Holder,McCabe and a group of 1,000’s of Democrats have.

  27. chrismireya says:

    This is exactly what is happening here. I think that the Democrats hope that to derail Trump in this way. After all, the traditional mockery, vilification and character assassination isn’t working as it did against Bush because Trump fights back. So, the liberals have pulled out the big (legal) guns.

  28. First they came for the President, and I did not speak out
    Because I was not the President..

  29. Add to this studies that show that most Americans commit multiple felonies per month because we have so many laws, given the time and resources they can eventually charge almost anyone with a crime. Threw away junk mail addressed to your neighbor’s house you’ve committed mail fraud, forgot to file a tax form for that online soap purchase–tax evasion, snapped a selfie at the BMV without noticing the “photography prohibitted” sign, hurt your back moving tithe couch and took a pain pill leftover from your wife’s RX from when she broke her toe two years ago–illegal drug use; and the list goes on and on. AND THEN you forget about something and you are nailed for false statements to government officials, if they want to spend the money to get you, you’re got.

  30. Tom Burch says:

    Our contemporary form of Federal hypocrisy is causing me to lose faith in the Republic I was born into. The values of my grandparents and parents are the same as mine now. But today, working hard, obeying the law and supporting my community seem to be lost on the greedy, corrupt, self-centered politicians who keep passing laws I am required to live under while they ignore any law that they find inconvenient to their amassing of a personal fortune.

  31. Rick Fischer says:

    Democrats shredding the law and due process now is setting precedents for how future presidents will be treated.

    Republicans did the same thing when they allowed Clinton to be sued in civil court while still in office, setting him up for a perjury trap. Now Stormy Daniels’ lawyer is working to sue Trump in civil court, so he can depose the president under oath in a perjury trap. Now no future president is safe from frivolous lawsuits.

    The poisonous partisanship in D.C. is tearing down the office of the presidency.

  32. Nice to see alan taking time out from his duties in crucifying jesus to post his treasonous, traitorous drivel here so that all his little sycophants could have something to agree with.

  33. And in this partisan environment- how might the good professor suggest we get said “non-partisan” commission? Laughable really…It will be tit for tat bickering the whole way. This text this that text that – this guy beats his wife, that lady slept with whoever… Non- partisan!?!? Whattahoot!

  34. The left has so descended into the septic tank of treasonous hatred that Alan Dershowitz is now considered a voice of reason. I wish the interviewer would have asked him why in the hell he would vote for an openly corrupt , Stalinist invalid to be president of his country. And then follow up by asking him to point to a single good thing she has ever done in her fundamentally corrupt excuse for a life. This country is drowning in lies.

  35. A special counsel should never be appointed unless there is a particular crime committed with evidence already identified….stay out of the witch hunts.

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