/ratanon/ - Rationalists Anonymous

Remember when /ratanon/ was good?


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Yeah, I was also feeling cheated that they are stealing our meme.

But I guess it's really an independent innovation, and actually a different idea. NPCs in games have several different properties, so if you use them as a metaphor it can mean different things, and the meaning of the meme naturally morphs.

In the original LW article from 2013 (https://www.greaterwrong.com/posts/cenSWez9Ddgsjd5Fc/to-what-degree-do-you-model-people-as-agents), Swimmer963 actually talked about several different things:

1. being problematic for solipsism (i.e., having a subjective experience)
2. being conscientious/agenty
3. being morally blameworthy/praiseworthy

and it's not at all clear that these should coincide. The sense that Yudkowsky picked up and used is (2). 

When /v/ invented the idea in 2016 (https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/npc-wojak), it was as a comment to a study about how often people have internal monologues, so it's really in sense (1). But someone could have no internal experience and still be agently, e.g. think of the Scramblers in Blindsight. 

Finally, the more recent use of the meme (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/16/us/politics/npc-twitter-ban.html) seems to focus on

4. repeating a small scripted dialog

which is something NPCs in video games do, and also describes the situation when mainstream journalists and bluechecks coordinate on a particular way to tell a story.




 >>/5548/
Yeah, I'd like to know too. I'm torn between "this kind of history-of-ideas is something that Google should be able to algorithmically trace" and "thank god we're not that legible yet".

Anyway, I'm certain that LessWrong was even first. I think the earliest usage of the term there was around 2009, while per Wikipedia

>  In the mid-2010s, many users on internet forums and social media gave 'virtue-signalling' a pejorative sense when they denounced such empty acts of public commitment to unexceptionable good causes such as changing Facebook profile pictures to support a cause  […]

and apparently the earliest known use is from 2004 (https://www.wordspy.com/index.php?word=virtue-signalling)

So maybe LW just picked up on something that was already in the air at the time.










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