/sunflower/ - Sunflower

If you spend 30 minutes a day on it it should happen within a week.

 >>/5020/
> If you spend 30 minutes a day on it it should happen within a week.
I didn't expect a reply so quickly, thanks.

When I first found the magic 101 thread I was impressed by how detailed it was and felt hopeful, but one thing important that the author left out is a timeline for the training. I was really naive and just expected to start feeling energy within a few minutes each day, I gave up on the 2nd day, only really tried to do the exercise for like 5 minutes.

I was about to start something else tomorrow (a different training) but I'll start this instead and give it a week. If it works I'll post back here about it, if it doesn't I'll start the next week with the other training.

 >>/5020/
OP here.

I'm sorry but I quit on the 2nd day. The first day I spent a full 30 minutes trying to do the exercise. On the 2nd day I couldn't continue because there was just too much room for doubt.

The exercise is vague enough that I could tell myself - "maybe I'm doing the visualization wrong, am I supposed to imagine a stream of vapor coursing through my entire body at the same time, or should it be a single stream of vapor that starts in my arm and works its way through all of my limbs and then go up by torso to my head and back down?"

Put that together with the fact that I was still feeling nothing and that there was a specific exercise for something else I wanted to practice that isn't even remotely vague, and I just couldn't hold on to the possibility that after 3 and a half hours of doing an exercise that I'm not even sure I'm doing correctly that I'd finally get a result.

Maybe this thread and your advice will serve someone else, but there aren't really any markers for improvement in this thing, I just felt like I was wasting time like with everything else I tried.

 >>/5026/
> I quit on the 2nd day
I haven't used the "magic 101" exercises so I can't say anything about those in specific, but the general approach should still be relevant as discussed in this exchange:

 >>/5003/
> I wasn't able to do my yoga breathing exercises up until now because shortly after posting I got a strange cough which hindered me from being able to continue the exercises. Now I'm starting again. A thing I noticed while doing simha kriya is when holding the breath at the end until the oxygen starts to run out and the tension or tingling arises (from the need to breath in again) in the body and you do the final exhale then you can rise up the tingling like a big energy rush through the entire body. No idea if it does anything but it's interesting and so far I can tell it only happens during simha kriya.
 >>/5004/
> I've used it this way, if I understand your description right. If you can do this with other yoga is perhaps just a matter of your personal affinity for that pose.
 >>/5007/
> I think it's that most people don't grasp just how much focus, strain and pain has to go into these exercises before they give results, that's why they won't get results. They mindlessly try a few times, feel nothing and conclude "it doesn't work".
 >>/5008/
> Yeah Simha Kriya was the first breathing exercise I picked up when you shared it and it took me around 3 to 4 months until I only started to notice that energy sensation

 >>/5027/
Thanks anyways but I think I'm just going to stick with the training methodology in Initiation Into Hermetics. The exercises are specific enough and your progress is easily measurable and not a placebo effect.

For example. One of the first mental training exercises is basically the Dharana limb of yoga. You have to train to concentrate on a single thought for atleast 10 minutes without any mental interruptions.

I can easily measure my progress with a timer. But if I feel a tingle in my hand whilst doing this magic 101 exercise there is no way for me to know it's not just something biological, a placebo (psychological), or actual progress.

For example, the phenomenon you described with the tension and tingling that comes with the breath holding exercise just sounds like a biological phenomenon to me.

The feeling of an orgasm as great and "different" as it feels in comparison to regular existence is still just a biological phenomenon.

There's just too much room for doubt, the exercise isn't specific or measurable enough. A lot of these things are too vague because "energy" is too vague, someone can feel warmth, or cold, or a small muscle spasm and call it "energy".

But I'm still interested because I always check out all sources. Do you know of any other occult books that focus on practical exercises rather than just theory. Maybe I'll find something useful in one of them.

 >>/5029/
> But if I feel a tingle in my hand whilst doing this magic 101 exercise there is no way for me to know it's not just something biological, a placebo (psychological), or actual progress.
> There's just too much room for doubt, the exercise isn't specific or measurable enough. A lot of these things are too vague because "energy" is too vague, someone can feel warmth, or cold, or a small muscle spasm and call it "energy".

You're going to run into a wall once you get to the elemental energy exercises of IIH if this is an issue for you.

 >>/5029/
> Do you know of any other occult books that focus on practical exercises rather than just theory
This is what I use for yoga:
 >>/1751/
> Classic text describing how to practice Hatha yoga (36 pages).
Almost all the daily exercises I do since about one year are taken from this ebook.

> the phenomenon you described with the tension and tingling that comes with the breath holding exercise just sounds like a biological phenomenon to me.
> The feeling of an orgasm as great and "different" as it feels in comparison to regular existence is still just a biological phenomenon.
I think you are looking at this wrongly. No one is claiming these aren't biological. Anything you experience with your body has to be physical and biological. This part isn't the relevant part. I've used this example: you can say that a painting is just canvas with pigment and oil, and that a book is just wood fibre and ink, but the message can still create in your mind immense effects. Don't stare at the material used as a medium. The body is the medium in yoga and esoteric practices. There will be changes to it as you work on it, but the real effect is in what it represents.

If you believe this so have an effect or not, beyond any currently held concept of physical reality, is also of little importance once you do experience a "silent orgasm" from simply doing a yoga pose. It will have the obsessive effect of drugs, without any drug intake, and you will be motivated to continue the practice.

I had no specific expectation from yoga when I started, I used a sports yoga book with a program for weight lifters. But after around 1,5 years where I trained daily for about 1 to 1,5 hours I suddenly experienced the mental image of Shiva appearing to me. I lay on my back to relax while this happened and let him speak to me. He encouraged me to keep training and explained some things to me. 

You can understand this any way you want, but if you experience something like this, it will motivate you.

 >>/5030/
> You're going to run into a wall once you get to the elemental energy exercises of IIH if this is an issue for you.
1. Did you read the last line in my response (or are you not the person I responded to)?
 >>/5029/
> But I'm still interested because I always check out all sources. Do you know of any other occult books that focus on practical exercises rather than just theory. Maybe I'll find something useful in one of them.

2. I don't think so because the phenomena described is very specific and significant. You should feel the heat increasing for example and it should happen "in that moment" and not "25 minutes into the exercise". You'll know if you are doing it wrong or right based on the description.

Also, I think the first mental exercises are impossible enough, if I can succeed at those I'll have way less doubt with the later exercises.

3. There's a specific test where you use a thermometer to measure if you were able to change the level of heat energy in a room. IIH is very specific and measuring your ability/progress is a core part of the training (even with the elemental exercises).

I doubt by heat they mean the warmth I can feel in my stomach right now when I focus my mind there. That's a pre-existing biological phenomenon, so I'll be trying to feel a heat that is much stronger than that.

I don't want to feel like I'm blindly investing time into something vague that has no way to be measured.

 >>/5031/
> Almost all the daily exercises I do since about one year are taken from this ebook.
I'll look into it.

id png
(4.6 KB, 680x63)

 >>/5032/
> are you not the person I responded to
There are IDs active on this board which should give an indication of who you are talking to, as long as they don't restart their router.

 >>/5032/
> I don't want to feel like I'm blindly investing time into something vague that has no way to be measured.
This is way ahead of time, but once you get into spellcasting using rituals, sigils or energy projection, it's fairly easy to see if it had the outcome you aimed for or not. With this it's more a matter of learning how your specific skill works. I know from experience the average activation times of different types of spells, ranging from 2 weeks to several years. Some people are going to get faster effects, people are different. Changing the room temperature is not something I would attempt, it's not within my range of skill at all. (Which is why I am not doing exercises like that)

 >>/5032/
> 2. I don't think so because the phenomena described is very specific and significant. You should feel the heat increasing for example and it should happen "in that moment" and not "25 minutes into the exercise". You'll know if you are doing it wrong or right based on the description.
You still need to put work in before you get the immediate vivid sensations that you're going for. This is the entire point of energetic visualization exercises, to increase your ability to perceive and evoke these sensations. In IIH Bardon makes it very clear that at the beginning you're going to be working entirely in the imagination; vivid perception indistinguishable from the physical is just the sign that you've mastered the exercise. Evoking physical phenomena that would move a thermometer or change your measurable weight is something that requires a great deal of practice beyond that. IIH is a good regimen but if you go into it with the mentality that you're just going to ignore purely astral phenomena and only treat physical phenomena as a 'success' you're going to be very frustrated. It's like wanting to be a powerlifter but being unwilling to start with light weights.

 >>/5036/
> In IIH Bardon makes it very clear that at the beginning you're going to be working entirely in the imagination; vivid perception indistinguishable from the physical is just the sign that you've mastered the exercise.
Yes, but those are extremes of imagination, the feats described are extreme relative to what we all normally experience, and that's why you are easily able to gauge your progress. Just like the first difficult mental exercise (Dharana) where you have to concentrate on a single thought for 10 minutes without any mental interruptions.

Even in the steps before you start actually doing magic, the feats you have to achieve seem pretty much impossible and are measurable.

> IIH is a good regimen but if you go into it with the mentality that you're just going to ignore purely astral phenomena and only treat physical phenomena as a 'success' you're going to be very frustrated.
It's not just about it being measured, but it must be an "extreme" if I have to gauge it based on personal experience.

For example, the following exercise:
Magic Psychic Training 3
> Imagine all around you, even the entire universe being fiery. Now inhale the fire element with your nose and, at the same time, with your whole body, (pore-breathing). Draw deep breaths regularly, without pressing air or straining the lungs. The material and the astral body ought to resemble to an empty vessel into which the element is being inhaled, better to say, sucked in, with each breath. The heat of the element has to be increased and pressed into the body with each breath. This heat ought to grow more and more intense, with every breath. The heat and the expansion power must become stronger, the fiery pressure higher and higher, until you feel yourself, at last, fiery, red-hot

I think if I'm doing an exercise like this it will be very clear if I'm doing it correctly or not. I will either feel an intense and increasing heat or not. It isn't vague at all even though I can't actually measure it externally.

That's as early as Step 3. The concentration exercises (Step 2) also allow you to gauge your progress, because if you can make yourself taste and hear things that aren't there, that's a pretty extreme and observable thing (even if you can't measure it).

But like I said before, if I can even get to the point where I can hold onto a single thought for 10 minutes without interruption (Step 1), that's going to make me trust the process way more than any other training method I've come across, because that feat already feels impossible to me.

I haven't come across an exercise in IIH that isn't something you can gauge your progress with (or "measure" in some way). Even mental wandering (described like astra projection) is tested to see if you are actually moving around in physical reality and it's not a hallucination. I've never seen another author speak about it in such a strict and literal way. You are tasked with visiting neighbors, friends, etc to see if what you see matches up with what is taking place in physical reality, so that you can know that you are actually doing it.

The Man who says he... jpg
(1.15 MB, 1920x1080)

 >>/5037/
With this mentality you will make so many mental blocks for yourself but do as you please. Walls and stairs are built from blocks. Walls need to be broken down while at stairs you will have to find the smallest block and step on it then to the next. And with hard work you can build a stair so you can walk over the wall. If only you weren't blind enough to see there was a door there all along. But there was no manual that said open the door and you did not notice there was a big PULL sign on it therefore it is not there. Nobody measured that door so you have to progressively build stairs block by block so you can climb over that wall...  oh and this mentality has a high probability you will just reinforce those prison walls


I noticed that I had psychic powers when I was a teenager and when I started to doubt it it didn't work. Had to realize how important is faith and how important is to trust yourself and your intuition to see it working and not all the "mainstream thinking" that people beat into me while growing up.

I never understood why this skeptic mentality is in this field. It's like people who willfully amputate their legs want to become the fastest runner athletes after it.

Yes it's true delusion can fuck you highly on the path but if you don't believe in yourself and constantly question the whole process you will not get anywhere. 
It's literally the 
> ARE WE THERE YET
childish mentality that your parents had to listen to while driving. Your parents will just get mad and turn back home and leave you there because you are that insufferable.


Whatever have fun. I had to listen to people with this mentality for years and I had to overcome it myself.

Oh and if you think there is a "best and most efficient exercise that turns us into a god after 3 days and it is written in a pdf that only the cool kids have on the web" then I don't know what to say. But then again BO just shared an awakening module just now so let's see what will happen.

> because that feat already feels impossible to me.
pic related. You just convinced yourself it's impossible and your subconscious will find ways to make yourself reinforce that belief instead finding a way to make that not just possible but the natural state of ways.

 >>/5019/
> How long does it take to feel energy in the first exercise, I can't feel anything

btw you always feel energy the same way you always see your nose and always feel that the tongue is in your mouth your mind just simply ignores it because it is "not important" to be aware of it. Feeling energy is the same. It will not boost your survival or reproductive chances so it doesn't feel a need to make you aware of it. This is why focusing on your breath and your heart beat is important in meditation because you subconscious always pays attention to those so if you tune into the awareness level of your subconscious you will be able to "feel" the other things that is around you all the time. This is why "trance" is needed because otherwise you are in this limited mundane maze like self defeatist retardation that just executes the same loops over and over

 >>/5040/
NOW YOU ARE BREATHING MANUALLY 

see how it changed the ways you breathe 
now do a 

NOW YOU ARE FEELING ENERGY 
don't think don't question just find your awareness and feel what is there and around you





 srsly the whole path is mental blocks and understanding of mechanics. But then again I was shocked when I learned some people don't have an internal monologue or it takes them "effort" to think because it is "hard". Took me time to realize how they even function and the way I have to talk to them. 

 >>/5029/
> A lot of these things are too vague because "energy" is too vague
I forgot to reply to this. "Energy" may sound vague if you can't see it, and unfortunately this means most people who use the word in new age circles, where it's most commonly used. They call it "energies" as a placeholder word for "spirits" or just about anything.

When "energy" is used on this board, I think we should make clear that we are talking about a material, something like a cloud of particles. This is what "energy" is. Once you do see it, you'll know there isn't a good term to use in western language.

In China they use the term Qi for the kind of energy which is floating through a human body (in Japan it's called Ki, represented by the same character as the sound in "genki", energetic, where "ki" is "spirit" or mindset). But Qi is also the material which makes up the body. Molecules.

When transformed to higher density, higher concentration, it's called Gong. The martial art Kung Fu is a different spelling of Gong Fu which is an ability. But it's used vaguely because most people don't know what it is. When seen, Qi is normally slightly yellow, or it can be darker. From my experience it's always some tone of yellow.

Gong is often red, but it can be green or any other colour. This is called "holy spirit" in the west. The terminology isn't clearly defined, because most people are using them without knowing what they are, and this is just how it is.

If someone in general speech is saying "it's such a good/bad energy in this room", this almost certainly means Qi or Ki in Asian terms, but there is no standard translation. There will also be difference if you practice a Taoist method, and in Yoga there is no real talk of energy at all. It does not however, mean the narrow definition from modern science, where an object at an elevated position has energy, such as how the water in a dam has elevation energy which is transformed to electricity when flowing through a waterwheel. This is not Qi. It is some kind of built up tension, but it's not the same term or material.

 >>/5041/
> But then again I was shocked when I learned some people don't have an internal monologue or it takes them "effort" to think because it is "hard". Took me time to realize how they even function and the way I have to talk to them. 
Some people also can't visualize things in detail, it's called aphantasia. My problem is the reverse, my imagination is too vivid, active and detailed, and my inner monologue is to active and apparent lol.

Not having an inner monologue would be extremely useful for Dharana (focusing on a single thought) & Dhyana (emptying your mind of all thoughts).

 >>/5039/
> Oh and if you think there is a "best and most efficient exercise that turns us into a god after 3 days and it is written in a pdf that only the cool kids have on the web"
Not a god, but atleast a master of Dharana, and not 3 days, but at least 6 months. I don't think that's a stretch. But it probably isn't in a pdf, it's probably in some far off place in the mind of some guru/monk i'll never meet.

> But then again BO just shared an awakening module just now so let's see what will happen.
Who is BO?

You mean the hatha yoga pdf the other guy linked to me?

> You just convinced yourself it's impossible and your subconscious will find ways to make yourself reinforce that belief instead finding a way to make that not just possible but the natural state of ways.
No, placebos don't work on me. I was progressing in the exercise at an endless and consistent rate, and then I hit a wall, and THEN it felt impossible. The thoughts didn't come until after the experience. I didn't create the experience through the thought, the thought created the experience.

Ironically your post here is exactly why I want to remove subjectivity from the process of these exercises, because it allows for people to 2nd guess themselves and fall to the mercy of "self gaslighting" - "It's not that the process can be improved, it's me making myself fail".

That way of thinking just leads to people giving up or an endless downward spiral. One must seek out improvements and experiment with other things. That's how meditation was even discovered in the first place. Some guy had to decide to sit down and try to find a new phenomenon that wasn't common before he first attempted it.

Maybe one day I'll be the guy who writes the book that makes all of this "standardized". I've already thought of that. Save all the other people like me in the future a lot of trouble and time wasting.

 >>/5043/
> Who is BO?
It's me, Board Owner. Frequent posters will probably recognize my drawings and writing style.

 >>/5039/
> I didn't create the experience through the thought, the thought created the experience.
I made a typo here lol (well, left out two words while rush typing):
 >>/5043/
> I didn't create the experience through the thought, the thought created the experience.
What I meant was:
I didn't create the experience through a thought, the thought WAS created AFTER the experience.

 >>/5044/
> It's me, Board Owner. Frequent posters will probably recognize my drawings and writing style.
Oh ok.

competing standards jpg
(26.95 KB, 474x268)

 >>/5043/
> I want to remove subjectivity from the process

GOOD FUCKING LUCK WITH THAT. We are all subjective beings only the ONE TRUE OMNISCIENT/OMNIPOTENT GOD or THE ALL have "Objective view of things"
Do you know which exercise is that? The Exercise 8 that was left off from the image that you posted when you merge with the "Great Eye". Is that "Objective"? No it is just an eye that can lead to other subjective views and different perceptions. The sum of all subjectivity can be "objective" then there is a step above it that is unexplainable. There are so many eyes on the path and you will need to change and upgrade your perception many times.


> Maybe one day I'll be the guy who writes the book that makes all of this "standardized"
Pic related. This is why we have million religions traditions even more occult books that start with WISH I KNEW THIS KNOWLEDGE WHEN I STARTED THE PATH BUT AM SHARING THIS COZ AM SUCH A BENEVOLENT MASTER. All the books say the same thing over and over again but from different angles and with different prejudices that change with time and age and no matter how many times they say it it's meaningless if you are unable to "get it"

 >>/5043/
> Some people also can't visualize things in detail
And some people can't see with their eyes it is called blindness.
> My problem is the reverse
No your problem is that the solution was always front of you so you disregard it as a solution. You made your own chains and unable to see how they work

> Not having an inner monologue would be extremely useful for Dharana (focusing on a single thought) & Dhyana (emptying your mind of all thoughts).
*sigh*
It's not... These people also "think" but they are not aware of it because it is not in words and voices. They are just subconscious blip blops that tell them they are hungry or that is a nice ass go have an erection and others. They are not the "great masters of focus and spirituality" yes there is a way where you become one with the dao and have no thoughts but that is because you merged with all energies and moving with them and "thinking" would just slow you down but that is an another state of mind that you will probably encounter when you reach a stage on the path.


> it's probably in some far off place in the mind of some guru/monk
There are many spiritual masters that will visit you when you are earnest on your path and you are "willing" to see them. There is no reason to bother someone that is still within the flesh and tries to meditate. The spiritual masters always appear before the earnest seeker. There are many on the astral and beyond. Like srsly they just appeared for me too out of nowhere when I was willing to focus on the spirituality. You just make a "bleep" on the radar as your energies rise and they appear.
> i'll never meet.
Here it is again. The defeatism. *sigh* This attitude can hinder you for years.

> but atleast a master of Dharana
I either get into the "zone" and it works or I just don't want it to work... dunno what to say not to mention only an another "master" can tell you if you are a master or not. Otherwise you become a "self proclaimed master". But... who was the "first" master. Who proclaimed his mastery.

Whatever have fun. I have no idea what else to say. I can ring up a spiritual master and channel a reply from them but... Not sure if there is a point. I believe in you. You can do it you can figure out the answer.

> placebos don't work on me
Just to make sure... Are you...  vaxxed?  by any chance?

 >>/5046/
> vaxxed
If anyone had a positive effect from that it's definitely proof of the placebo effect ;^)

;^) gif
(1.71 MB, 500x500)

 >>/5047/

I just remembered how in the last season of Hataraku Mao-sama (the anime where the demon lord becomes a McDonalds worker) literally had a how to feel energy exercise for absolute mundanes. They taught Chio the bystander girl that caught up in the isekai war how to feel energy so she can send telepathic messages. It was about lying down in a hot spring and the head and the feet was above the water while the whole body was warm and they poured cold water on her head so she can connect that cold flow feeling from toes to the top of the head and move energy with that then she had to learn to shout loudly to learn to understand how you make your "thoughts heard".
I thought the anime is just some retarded dumb ass isekai writing as usual (mostly it was) but they portrayed a working exercise perfectly. Was wondering if the author got that from a tradition or he came up with it from his own.

 >>/5046/
> Are you... vaxxed? by any chance?
No, but even if I was that would have nothing to do with a placebo. Some people were basically blackmailed into getting the shot or losing their job (I was unemployed around that time).

Someone holding a gun to your head is not a placebo lol. Don't think that people were just getting it because they believed the media.


As for everything else you've said, I think the whole "it won't work because of your mindset" thing doesn't make sense and it really just sounds like gas lighting (which is sad if someone does it to themselves).

Have you considered how dangerous your mindset could be for someone who is practicing absolute garbage by a fake author, endlessly telling themselves that "it's my fault it's not working", not considering that what they are trying to do isn't even possible?

My mindset is, something either works or it doesn't. Blind belief is for religions and cults, and I'm not joining either. Now that doesn't mean I'm saying training in the occult/magic has to work instantly, but there has to be an observable change in which I can observe that it's working over time.

If there was a light switch that when flipped turned the lights on randomly within the next 15 minutes, nobody would buy that light switch. But a light switch that slowly dims or brightens over the course of 15 minutes can atleast be observed as functioning, and will probably get some novelty buyers. I expect training in the occult/magic to work that way. If I can't see gradual improvement I won't bother with the training, as there are no guarantees in life and that training may not even work (or I might just be incapable of being successful at that specific kind of training).

There's no reason to try and force a square peg into a round hole.

I don't have to will my eyes into working, they work whether I want them to or not, whether I think about them working or not. Even if I distrust my eyes they'll still work the way they were designed to work.

That's the only kind of magic I'm interested in, magic that works like my eyes works, and I think my path will lead to that kind of magic. The only reason I had any interest in Bardon's books is because of that mindset. His training method is the only one that appeals to a mindset like that (that I've found).

Thanks to you and everyone else for whatever useful bit of info I picked up, I'll end it here.

 >>/5053/
> Someone holding a gun to your head is not a placebo
The fear you feel from a gun is not a placebo? If you never have seen a gun in your life would you fear it if someone put it to your head? 
The reason why I asked the "vaxx" because either if you got it or not it was psychological. It was a mass psychosis event that thx to the media overload we managed to pretend it "never happened" already.
> Don't think that people were just getting it because they believed the media.
Oh don't worry I only have respect towards people if they were gullible fools. If you "got it" because you not just appealed to false authority but didn't even have the intelligence to find a way to fake it or go against authority you are a slave a minion to the system and if you are on that level than I have no way giving you any advice. This is why I asked. Those who fail to societal pressure have a heavy programming within themselves they have hard time to break.

> "it won't work because of your mindset"
I NEVER FUCKING SAID IT WON'T WORK I SAID YOU WILL HAVE A HARD TIME BREAKING THAT. I am not saying this from cult mentality I am saying this because I am practicing psychic abilities for decades. 
> sounds like gas lighting
This fucking word "gas lighting" this is like "strawmanning" got into the 4chan dictionary. Back then everything was a strawman. also did you ever hear the saying 
> fake it til you make it

> who is practicing absolute garbage by a fake author
Please enlighten me what is a "fake author" because the most mainstream book the BIBLE was translated so many times the original meanings got lost multiple times and even if you talk to the "real author" there is a chance you misunderstand what he is saying. And yes my mindset is dangerous because IT IS WORKING. And it can cause changes in reality. If a gun never killed a person it is even working? Do we need to kill a person with a gun to see if it is working? This is the danger with awakening psychic abilities. You only understand how serious are the forces that you playing with when you accidentally cause a catastrophe with it. You will understand what "working" means.

> not considering that what they are trying to do isn't even possible
You might not realize but magic is more "possible" than the current level of technology and civilization we have nowadays. We literally enslaved and turned many people into "cogs" so they can maintain this "society". We are not at the "civilization" level anymore which is about having a shelter from the dangers of the wilderness this is a "society". Attaining this is harder than attaining magic because magic is possible by being alone for an extended amount of time and listening to yourself and finding the inner voice in the process while for this "society" you need centuries of work education and development and we are too BUSY nowadays to "contemplate". You have no idea how important contemplation is on the path.

> My mindset is, something either works or it doesn't
You are not a problem solver it seems. You expect things to "work by default". Do you know what problemsolvers do? They see a thing that is NOT WORKING figure out WHY IT IS NOT WORKING then MAKE IT WORK. They made the thing that was broken into a functioning thing. Do you have any idea how broken people are nowadays? And how the "cure" is a bunch of "meds" to psychological problems that could be fixed with some counseling? 90% of "magic" is psychology. Do you think you can become a psychic without having a basic grasp on psychology? While inventors make things that never worked into something that works. Do you know what hermeticists call the "Path". They call it the GREAT WORK.

hermetic seal of light jpg
(22.33 KB, 500x500)

 >>/5053/
> Blind belief
Who talked about BLIND BELIEF. DO YOU KNOW HOW ANNOYING IS WHEN YOU SEE SOMETHING AND PEOPLE SAY bruh it's not there lol THEN YOU BELIEVE THEM and it turns out you were right then they pretend that IT WAS ALWAYS THERE. Did you hear the saying "You make your own reality"

> and I'm not joining either
You just talked about how
> it's probably in some far off place in the mind of some guru/monk i'll never meet.
So even if there was a cult that taught working spirituality you would not join them?
You realize that you got gaslighted that every cult is bad and for sheeps by the "mainstream atheism" right. I never said to join to one but if you are unable to understand what they are saying and disregard them as hurr durr they sheple not like me the euphoric individual then you will just increase your ignorance and chase an invisible cloud that you are not willing to even acknowledge.

> there has to be an observable change in which I can observe that it's working over time
It's like wanting the computer to work without having the will to try to turn it on or plug it into the electric outlets or if it doesn't work figure out why. Not working = I don't want it to work. This is why IT was only for nerds back then. Nowadays technology is so dumbed down even monkeys can use it. The last known monkey that was able to use magic was Sun Wukong. 

> I expect training in the occult/magic to work that way. 
> There's no reason to try and force a square peg into a round hole.
Did... you... ever.. hear... ABOUT THE HERMETIC SEAL OF LIGHT? THE QUINTESSENCE? Pic related? Do you have any idea how deep the symbolism goes? Yeah it's literally on the OP's pic at Exercise 1 post 3. The square is literally in a round hole or "sphere" at 3D. That pic is so well worded. Always a good reread. Shame it is either obvious for initiates or something ungraspable for those who don't walk the path. 

> I don't have to will my eyes into working, they work whether I want them to or not
You are making me cry by making retarded statements like this. There are ways you can increase the sharpness of the eye via psychic means and combine it with the third eye to see the energies and by saying this you just said you are unwilling to make your 3rd eye function. You are like a person who never used a computer because he never tried to turn it on... Like my grandpa who says the monitor is broken because he did not know it has a power up button ;_;
> Even if I distrust my eyes they'll still work the way they were designed to work.
Did you ever get so drunk you were unable to read or took meds that make you blind via rare side effects? You are taking the things you see so granted I have no idea what to say.

> That's the only kind of magic I'm interested in, magic that works like my eyes works
Congratulations it exists. It's drug and psychic abuse induced way that CIA and extremely shady cults practice. You can literally do that "magic" via working but they do it via extremely traumatizing experiments that will leave a scar upon your body and that will make it work but it will enslave you in the process because you will be dependent on the drugs and the abuse.
> I think my path will lead to that kind of magic
Have fun then.

> The only reason I had any interest in Bardon's books is because of that mindset
Do you have any idea what kind of spirits dwell in Silesia and why Bardon's mindset is super compatible with them. 
Also Bardon died from pancreatitis in police custody. He was going though things that his "mindset" did not shield him from. I am not attacking him here because I know the madness which was going on in those years and the spirits were furious and he had no way managing a situation that dire...

 >>/5053/
> whatever useful bit of info I picked up
Wonder what you managed to pick up tbh but good luck on the path. Also my hostility is not towards you but towards this mindset. This mentality took away a decade from my progress and I am still a little salty about it. When you show someone a psychic feat they become speechless then they start to explain how it didn't work and must have been a coincidence in several instances and because you are on the beginning of your path you start to doubt yourself. And when that doubt happens the energy flow gets blocked. In martial arts they say "hesitation is death" and in magic it's literally impotency. Hope you will understand what I am saying one day.

lolibooru... jpg
(353.51 KB, 2048x2732)

 >>/5063/
> It's drug and psychic abuse induced way that CIA and extremely shady cults practice
I want to point out that in the end, their methods do work, and them surrendering shows they were just extremely mislead by a combination of ambition and weakness. This
https://www.pasf.org/pubvideo/pasdvdshort.htm
stuff is really on point. They just have this problem of trying to be loyal dogs to the point they submit to the vilest oppressors, sacrificing everything in the worst expression of sub-optimization possible. Like when they provided Viagra to boy-raping warlords in Afghanistan "for democracy", in the end just confirming that democracy is indeed as degenerated as the Taliban views it. Which is the reason they were allowed to come back again. "The mandate of heaven" is a real thing.

Also I should add that I never intended to develop any special abilities from my practice, I started from a Taoist/zen buddhist view where enlightenment is a thing of the mind and spirit, and changing the world is irrelevant.

It was just that I kept being interfered with by intrusive thoughts, or so I thought. So I targeted those violently inside my head, and experienced that when I was able to suppress them, the world around me changed. 

It was from this that I drew the conclusion that being perfectly synced with the world, as is achieved when having an empty mind, will mean that destroying an intrusive thought that actually originated with an external entity, will result in the destruction of that entity.

And that entity can be a very mundane thing, like the government of your country, which (as I now know) uses antennas to project said intrusive thoughts into people's heads.

In the end, developing a "completely imaginary" mental servitor which is just something less than a tulpa, can result in the ability of changing very physical human battlefields and political arenas.

I can just say, if you don't want your antennas burned, don't connect them to my mind by projecting intrusive thoughts to me. The moment two systems are connected, one can effect the other, there is no such thing as one-way communication, it's always two-way.

I started from the simple intent of destroying the thoughts which disturb my meditation, and ended up developing servitors to take over the world, because they just can't keep their fat fingers out of my mind.

Socrates training png
(380.32 KB, 1920x1080)

 >>/5067/
> I want to point out that in the end, their methods do work
Yeah I know and they weren't the "first" to come up with this "idea" it's just it creates a false spiritual development and as the eastern deities explained it "whores out spirituality". They always had a fight against evil cults and using the materialist perspective to reinforce to worst parts of spirituality is a crime against existence itself. You could call it the late stage capitalist mentality in spirituality. Quick gains for the detriment of long term development.
> They just have this problem of trying to be loyal dogs to the point they submit to the vilest oppressors
They were made that way like women who were turned into masochists during rape their psyche needs a cruel master like that because a person without cruelty is "weak" and "he cannot be a master". And defying your master is worse than death and hell itself. The problem ofc is that the masters are usually not that powerful but to these people he is something beyond a parent and something towards a god even tho they don't believe in god for some weird reason.

> never intended to develop any special abilities from my practice
To me it was like the "Next step of evolution". If psychic powers were real don't you want them. If you have psychic potential don't you want to tap into it? It was like pic related but the power of the mind. Mind over matter. When I realized it is like a "hidden talent tree in the mind" and I just need to allocate my skillpoints like you can with every skill on earth I thought why not. What else is "greater" in life than this. Why wouldn't I want to see it. What other power have any meaning if this is "real".
> and changing the world is irrelevant
I was always about "changing the world". What I want to "make from this life" if "I could do anything"... then "I would make a world where I could walk my path and find ways where others can walk with me". I had so many dreams where I walked through many regions and it always started with people walking along with me then they died then I was alone and I always had the "this is always how it is" feeling but then again I found an another group that were "on my level" again and went forward. I really like the journey type of paths and I had to realize how I walked those through many lives. But it is nowadays that I had to realize the
> changing the world is irrelevant
but with the addition of 
> if you don't know what you are doing 
so I have to understand how I affect the world and how the world affects me and how some "evils" need to run their course. But I live here and I have a right to live so those who are against it then maybe they want to lose those rights? It's kinda crazy how many people want to "die" because they died long ago and they just want someone that finishes them off.

> one can effect the other, there is no such thing as one-way communication, it's always two-way.
:)

> they just can't keep their fat fingers out of my mind.
It's so funny when I am trying to figure out if I am fighting my own issues within and try to decide when it is literally about "hurting myself" and the entities let me to figure out my shadows until I get so lost I ask for some guidance then... suddenly... some retarded group attacks. NO NEED TO HOLD BACK THEN. Then as the attackers are being dealt I can feel which parts "sync" as I have finally a "common enemy" and which were those that "never belonged to me". Also yeah a cleaner energy field a better world and people are less pestered by the "common demons" because someone just dealt with 90% of them as a stress relief exercise.

 >>/5067/
> enlightenment is a thing of the mind and spirit
And forgot to add that yes via enlightenment you can unlock every ability and understand all the desires you have and had and finally can decide your "own path" while chasing psychic abilities for retarded reasons is literally knocking on a door that is just Not there.

And thanks to the dumbed down mainstream spirituality and thanks to the hostile energies industrial society is generating in the last 2 centuries it boils down to 
> open your mind to get fucked more easily 
then some people go mad because of it and they conclude spirituality leads towards psychosis therefore it is bad therefore it should be discouraged and we should be content with the bleak life that the government gave us or something. I have no idea how NPCs are capable of operating like this by default even tho I understand their mental patterns too well nowadays


 Also I wanted to write down to OP how he can cleanse his "environment" and realize the energies that fuel his imagination and thoughts is already energy but it is "felt" differently and they just interact with his memories/thoughts and energies he generates and once he understands the nature of his thoughts and how inner energies and "outsider energies" are the "same" but in differing quality and all that is happening is the way it gets recycled into his energy field and how he experiences that but then as I scanned his mentality and figured the way how to explain it I realized it makes me too fucking angry because it is like talking to 90% of the "Modern world" and I am still unable to remain calm and "convince" only the meaningful parts because he just falls back to some midwit nonsense mentality he attached his mind towards. Why do people like him even want to get into magic. Get into finance or technology with this shallow thinking I swear. 

 >>/5019/
Try New Energy Ways by Robert Bruce.

There was an 8th exercise. Posting it for completeness sake.

Exercise 8: World state actuation

This is the first exercise meant entirely for the stage of adepthood, and as such, we are entirely concerned with the conceptual, or intellectual plane. Completion of exercise 5 is required to operate at this level of reality, it requires the perspective of the "eye" on top of the tower.

By first time that you access this state of being, you will have fully consolidated your Self as an archetypal simplification of the world structure, or literally the superlative principle of the world. If you have managed to maintain your sense of individuality in this state, the ego, then you should have a fully subjective perspective right now, seeing everything as an extension and aspect of your self. If you haven't, you're probably not reading this, as upon your consciousness dissolving into the All, you've lost your sanity.

Similarly, if you've maintained your individual will on this path, you have now become a hasnamuss of the third degree, having the foresight of the First Principle of everything.

These two points having been realized, you are now in a position to voluntarily act upon the concept structure of the world, at the a-physical and a-temporal level.

Enter a deep meditative state, and access the world structure under the mantle of the Author. You will notice that every virtual subject is governed by its imaginary potential, or soul, which by varying weights and biases, and governed by the principle of improbability, actuate a specific potential only when impelled by an external Event.

You may shift your perspective from the micro- to the macro-cosmic, and observe how this holds as true for vacuum chaos perturbations as it does for overarching concept-currents of persons, ideas, ideologies, and nations. By taking the place of an active observer, you can pre-set or bias the outcome of an Event towards any potentiality of your choosing, and turn it into an actuality. This holds true irrespective of the time, place, or scale of the thing you're influencing, with the only limitation is that the less likely your desired outcome is, the more effort it will take to over-rule the improbability principle in its favour.

Play around a bit, see what changes you can make at the physical, mental, and emotional level. Alter a foundamental law of reality. It's all up to you. The level of adepthood is the threshold of immortality. As a metaphysical first principle, you can no longer "die", as your being pervades all, and you may manifest yourself physically at any time and place of your choosing. At the same time, your present manifestation is still very local and temporal, and unless you choose to take the fun out of living and turn off your physical needs, you will likely want to force the world state in your favour, as you no longer depend on synchronicity to bring about a vague effortless prosperity, and can decide how and when to receive something. This doesn't mean you have unlocked god mode or anything, making large changes will require diligent practice and development, but you can still transition to a hands-off source of income with some creative manipulation of concepts and currents.

I personally recommend that you first work to de-realize the concepts of "disease," "aging," and "poison" in your perceived space, as well as to solidify your health and well-being as unalterable constants. >>/5019/

 >>/5069/
> why do people like him even want to get into magic
Because their subconscious, or something else through their subconscious, is telling them this is the only way to survive life.

 >>/5224/
If it was that simple then he would have found a way
> this is the only way to survive life
I used this "failure means death" mentality to get through many obstacles even in the mundane life in magic it was even more wild. My guides had to teach me that I need to make mistakes and not consider a mistake death because on the path you will do many mistakes but you will have to awaken the "automatic self correction instinct". Like how your legs sometimes automatically make a sudden movement to prevent your fall. There is a part on the path when you can "No longer fall". Buddhists say that is when you can start walking as a Bodhisattva 

The reason why I said this because I don't get his "origin motive". On the path the real reason "why we do it" is more important than the "How".
He just wanted an explanation that somehow conforms to his mundane mental framework. The framework that says this is not real and only coincidences and mental illnesses. The only way to "Help him" is to appear before him and "prove him wrong" but that is also wrong. That might cause mental scars and might ruin his path on an another level.

Once the "Why?" is understood the "How?" comes naturally. Motivation is the key. Method comes after.

But I am pretty sure you know that how easy things become once you get in touch with your "inner voice" and with the "others"

 >>/5225/
> But I am pretty sure you know that how easy things become once you get in touch with your "inner voice" and with the "others"
My problem is I have never known anything else and I grew up ignoring it. I'm an adept who was conditioned to believe his was mediocre all the while outperforming everyone around me. My life is a weird kind of hell.