/kc/ - Krautchan

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Why is this flight so important? It was ranked #1 tracked flight worldwide for couple of minutes, and even at landing it was #10. Came from Turkey, and landed in SE Polan, close to Ukraine. It was also registered in Ukraine. This type of plane was originally a military model, for paratroopers for example, but quite some countries use it in civilian air travel.

 >>/48193/
> Why is this flight so important?

It carries new Bayraktar.

 >>/48195/
That is a plausible explanation.
I wonder what kinda info can be put together by just following planes. Basically a form of OSINT. A source of OSINT.

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The Brazilian Army has chosen the Italian Centauro II as the Cascavel's successor in the wheeled cavalry role. Usually it'd only buy foreign vehicles obsolete by a generation. Once its 120 mm gun enters service, armored cavalry will be less modern than mechanized cavalry (which has finished replacing the EE-11 Urutu with the Guarani this year). The Centauro and Guarani do fit each other, they have some parts commonality and there's even talk of some local Centauro production. Shared maintenance was one of the biggest strengths of the Cascavel-Urutu duo. Meanwhile armored cavalry is still using Leopard Is and M113s.

 >>/49344/
Would Leopard 1s have advantages over other tanks in some cases? Being that they are lighter and Brazil might not have very good infrastructure in the jungles and places like that.

 >>/49344/
Centauro and Guarani both are manufactured by Iveco? But different branches?
> armored cavalry will be less modern than mechanized cavalry
They can catch up with subsequent modernization, maybe til 2030 or something. It's not that South America will see any major conflict. Need to just match neighbours' preparedness.

Is there any border disputes in South Am?
I'm aware of the War of Pacific and the results, but does that matter?
A possible source of conflict could be if things in one of the countries getting out of hand and (some of) the rest would intervene on behalf of one side, "making order".
Heh, or Football War.

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 >>/49345/
Low weight is indeed a point the Brazilian Army cares about, the competition for a new MBT has a 50 ton restriction. A friend looked into the details (it's public) and he calls it unrealistic and too conservative.
Infrastructure and jungles are irrelevant because our armored cavalry in flat terrain with good roads in the south. Only the 20th armored cavalry regiment is a bit more remote, facing Paraguay, and even then it's on flat ground.

 >>/49347/
The Guarani is by Iveco and already assembled locally, the Centauro is  by Iveco + Leonardo.
> They can catch up with subsequent modernization, maybe til 2030 or something. It's not that South America will see any major conflict. Need to just match neighbours' preparedness.
It is Argentina that will have to step up their game now. But on armored cavalry we're about even, the modernized TAM isn't any better than the modernized Leopard 1. It's silly to compare the two militaries because relations have been friendly for decades, there's no way a war will break out in core Mercosul, and yet the Army's commanders still have to menacingly place all tanks facing Argentina and Uruguay.

 >>/49348/
> Is there any border disputes in South Am?
A tiny island and a piece of scarcely populated, windswept steppe are contested with Uruguay, but nobody cares. Border disputes aren't a real issue if the competing parties care more about their friendly relations. The disputes that do matter are on the other half of the continent: Peruvian and Bolivian claims on Chile, the Ecuadorian Amazon and Venezuelan claims on Guyana.
> A possible source of conflict could be if things in one of the countries getting out of hand and (some of) the rest would intervene on behalf of one side, "making order".
Could be separatism in Bolivia or an insurgent group like FARC spilling across the border.

 >>/49366/
50 tons is not unrealistic, the Type 10 weighs less than that.
Then what happens if somebody invades Brazil through the jungle?

 >>/49366/
> 50 ton restriction
Get T-72.

 >>/49368/
> Let's invade Russia via Siberia
There are more convenient and expedient ways.

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Forget about it, the Worker's Party president bashed the project, a lawyer filed an objection and a regional judge suspended the 900 thousand euro bid, before Bolsonaro could sign the contract. The judge thinks there's no point in buying armored vehicles in peacetime when education and healthcare are in a dire situation. The lawyer's request was more aggressive and stated there are no threats to national security and 98 vehicles would represent only 5% of the armored vehicle fleet and hence, irrelevant to defense capabilities. None of the deal's enemies delve into any technical military considerations and they're clearly clueless, but they claim spending R$ 5 billion in our current financial and social situation is immoral and illegal. Those billions apparently wouldn't have been given upfront, but paid gradually until 2038, when the 98th vehicle would be delivered; many opponents do seem to be thinking it'll be 5 billion all in this year's budget. The Army might contest the judge's decision, but within a month Lula assumes office and it's over. Lula's base within his party has become very anti-military, moods have changed since decades ago when the left could back military spending on national sovereignty grounds.

 >>/49368/
> 50 tons is not unrealistic, the Type 10 weighs less than that.
He didn't specifically criticize the weight limit, just the overall requirements.
> Then what happens if somebody invades Brazil through the jungle?
The only border area appropriate for tanks is with Venezuela, but it won't get them far. It's not just that the roads are bad, much of the Amazon doesn't have roads at all. Rivers and aircraft are the proper modes of transportation, specialized light infantry is the chief maneuver force.

 >>/49381/
Well, then that's it. Politics torpedoed the deal. While I raised the question of probable conflicts, it is also true if one has to do the buildup during the conflict, that is too late. As Romans said Si vis pacem, para bellum.
Hmm. I dunno. Fighting civil wars and doing coups can be done fine with whatever armament is at hand. Although in case of coup it could be a good idea to win the troops with the superior equipment.

 >>/49382/
> Well, then that's it. Politics torpedoed the deal. 
It's baffling how easy and quick it was for a middle-ranking judge to take down a national-scale, decades-long defense project.

 >>/49384/
Democracy at work. Tyrants btfo-ed.

Japan is replacing her Type 96 wheeled APCs with Patria AMVs. Sad...
This seems to be the way the world is going, nations are not designing and making their own military hardware any more, instead they are building existing foreign designs but in their own country. I don't like it.

https://www.thedefensepost.com/2022/12/09/japan-army-patria-amv/


They are also working with Italy and the UK to build a fighter Jet. But I think that is excusable as fighters are expensive to design so sharing the cost makes sense, particularly if this stops them buying US planes.

https://www.thedefensepost.com/2022/12/09/japan-uk-italy-fighter-jet/

 >>/49406/
Global economy with multinational companies.
How the Patria compares to Type 96?

 >>/49408/
It's larger so it can fit more people and is presumably more resistant to mines and other such things.
Also, AMV stands for Armoured Modular Vehicle, it's like the Boxer in that it can be configured to suit various different purposes. Like it can be given a cannon and turned into an IFV.

 >>/49428/
> It's larger so
Easier to hit.
> Modular
Seems like the trend. It makes sense in the sense that only one vehicle needs to be maintained instead of several types. But I think this modular stuff adds a level of complexity to the vehicle itself which means harder fixing stuff on the field. I dunno.

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I found an a snippet of information I want to follow up because of the potential consequences of this fateful event.
The topic is WWII, and a faulty torpedo igniting mechanism which prevented the Germans to sink quite a few capital ships of the Royal Navy, during Operation Weserübung. The book where I found this info, is quite biased, a "pulp fiction" of the history genre, although the data itself mostly legit (or at least coming from books that are considered good sources, eg. Churchill and Dönitz), how the events are dressed up, how the events are explained, is a different matter (biased towards the Axis).
So basically it says that the German U-Boots were equipped with a new, not yet battle tested torpedo, the G-7e, which were ignited with a magnetic pistol. These torpedoes were only tried in the Baltic, and in the northern waters of Norway they don't detonated the warheads. Over hundred such torpedoes were launched, and most failed. The author estimates they could have scuttled over 20 British ships, among them such names like HMS Warspite (captain Schütze losed 3 projectiles at her).

I have no data yet, just this from Wikipee:
> Pi G7A-MZ: Combined mechanical and (faulty) magnetic igniter (replaced by Pi2)
I suspect this one is mentioned in the book. So promising start. There are many angles to take a look at this.

Maybe should have write this in the Suvorov thread, but will be fine here.

 >>/49439/
I heard of this, the US had similar issues with their topedos as well.

 >>/49440/
That's relatively easy to find:
https://www.historynet.com/us-torpedo-troubles-during-world-war-ii/
https://www.wearethemighty.com/popular/ww2-navy-torpedo-problems-mk14/
Here's an article about the German ones:
http://www.uboataces.com/articles-wooden-torpedoes.shtml

I dl'd a handful of books, one which seems to be Dönitz's memoirs, in English. Gonna flip couple of pages.

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Dönitz in his memoirs (Ten Years and Twenty Days; The World Publishing Company, Cleveland and New York, 1959) titles the chapter about the Norwegian campaign: "The Norwegian Operation and the Torpedo Crisis"

The most notable quote:
> On April 16 at 0410 Prien reported that he had come upon transports lying at anchor in Bygdenfiord and had fired eight torpedoes at the long wall of ships, motionless and overlapping each other - but without achieving any success.
He gives an account on reported failures, among them the aforementioned Warspite accident. Some misses, some did not fire, some fired prematurely. Some events are described in detail, what was the plan, data of ranges and such.
He concludes that both contact and magnetic pistols caused malfunctions. And not just the incapability for detonation, or the early explosion, but some torpedoes run deeper than set depth, and this caused some of the misses too.
It is hard to judge - from this glance I took - the extent of possible destruction if they had adequately working torpedoes. Would be good to know what British ships were there, and in the crosshairs of the optics.

 >>/49394/
And a higher court reversed the decision, this contract is fully and formally justified within the state's bureaucratic logic. But I wouldn't be surprised if there's a new flip-flop on this matter.

 >>/49495/
> But I wouldn't be surprised if there's a new flip-flop on this matter.
That middle level judge might not acted by his own judgement but was told to do it. Then further twists and turns can be expected in the story.

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 >>/49439/
I believe I found the Warspite vs Shütze incident in Churchill's book (The Second World War Vol. 1; Rosetta Books, 2002 /1948/)

This is how it looked like from the British side:
By the morning of April 10, the Warspite had joined the Commander-in-Chief, who was proceeding towards Narvik. [...] Admiral Whitworth shifted his flag to the Warspite at sea, and at noon on the thirteenth he entered the fiord escorted by nine destroyers and by dive-bombers from the Furious. There were no minefields; but a U-boat was driven off by the destroyers...
That's it. Then he goes on writing about an attack against German destroyers at Narvik.

For some months already, there's been talk of slapping the Centauro II's 120 mm turret on the Leopard 1. I'm not sure about it, it's still a vulnerable tank, but I guess any increased effective range will by itself augment its survivability.

 >>/49559/
Yeah, offense is the best defense. Except when it isn't.

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Whoops.

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They flew into Transylvania. I looked away for a minute and they disappeared (actually the page locked down - can't just let it run for free for the peasants - then after refresh they were nowhere).
But two Stratotankers were circling at the SE tip of the Carpathians, I assume they had rendezvous with the F-15s. They were from England, while the fighters appeared in Poland first, south of Krakow.

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Afghan car industry just was just born.
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/auto/cars/taliban-unveils-1st-supercar-mada-9-with-modified-toyota-corolla-engine-gunroof-not-included/articleshow/97030570.cms
Here's their channel:
https://invidious.snopyta.org/channel/UC2769dGUo_BaEjMixl9e1xg
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2769dGUo_BaEjMixl9e1xg

Here's another channel about it:
https://invidious.snopyta.org/watch?v=xTWuYPavSjc
https://youtube.com/watch?v=xTWuYPavSjc

test

 >>/49654/
Sorry, not hat for you. Yet.

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 >>/49655/
in case such times come - here's a reference

 >>/49657/
Thanks that helps. I've similar for Kazakhstan.

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A 266 m long, 20-30 thousand ton chunk of hazardous waste-laden metal is floating somewhere in the Atlantic. Nobody wants the former aircraft carrier São Paulo anymore and it's too toxic to touch the coast, so the Navy will more or less abandon it to its fate until it sinks.

 >>/49680/
Would be perfect for a favela.

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Happy Australia Day, cunts!

 >>/49694/
But what has that got to do with tanks?

 >>/49695/
Nothing, but I didn't want to create a new thread. There didn't seem anything appropriate in the catalogue.

 >>/49697/
Okay, well Happy Australia day.

 >>/49694/
Thank you. To you too, fella.

The competition to pick Australia's next IFV is over. We are picking the Hanwha Redback(a modified K21) over Rhinemetall's Lynx. 

The Redback(or rather the K21) is a lot lighter than the Lynx at 25.6t compared to 34-50t, it has a better Horsepower to weight Ratio and it can carry 9 dismounts compared to 6/8 for the lynx.
But there are probably trade-offs in secrets things like armour protection or sensors or something.


https://www.thedefensepost.com/2023/07/27/australia-hanwha-infantry-vehicle/

 >>/50764/
That article mentions couple of things about the Lynx.
> equipped with active, passive, and reactive systems to protect against rocket-propelled grenades and anti-tank guided missiles.
> The Lynx is also armed with the next-generation Lance 2.0 turret and the new Wotan 35 electrically-driven cannon
I assume these are the things that are "better" than the Redback. The lighter weight can come from the thinner armour, less capable weapons, less ammo (or same amount of smaller rounds)... I dunno, Wotan 35 as the name says 35mm autocannon, but Wikipee says K21 has a 40mm one.
I'm not sure about the armour protection, even tanks can be taken out with relative ease, so a heavier Lynx with thicker skin might not be that advantageous.

The Lynx might replace the Bradely now, it's one of two remaining competitors left.

https://www.thedefensepost.com/2023/08/08/rheinmetall-us-army-bradley/?expand_article=1

 >>/50806/
> Optionally Manned Fighting Vehicle (OMFV)
They are running out of acronyms, started to scrape the bottom of the barrel.
> Team Lynx
Should have called it Lynx Mob.
> XM30 Mechanized Infantry Combat Vehicle
Sounds very effecitve. Not just Infrantry Combat Vehicle, but "Mechanized"! Really packs more punch.
But that XM30 is ridiculous. Should have called it BAR. BAR MICV...
> a third AI-powered virtual third crew member
To be honest every task a computer replaces frees up one crew member, so all could be called virtual crew.

Now that am thinking. Do they have a Team Rechts?

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The first battalion riding Lynx's is getting set up.
They promise ~1700 USD net wage for soldiers enrolling to this particular unit. For the U25 age bracket. The current crew also gets wage bump to this level. The recruitment starts  basically now, but signing up and enrollment starts next month. The contract is for three years.
The unit is part of 30th "MH Kinizsi Pál" armoured infantry brigade.
Btw if anyone wants a ride, there's some lottery game thingy on the Facebook page of the Hungarian Defense Force.
https://honvedelem.hu/hirek/embert-varunk-a-vasra.html

All in all we're gonna get 218 Lynxes by 2029.
Here's the parameters we get:
- 30mm autocannon
- guided AT missile
- "radio controlled weapon platform"
- smoke grenades
- fun
- length: ~8,5m; width: ~3,8m; height: 3,7m
- weight: 45t
- it's bigger than a fucking T-72
- crew: 11 (I assume 3+8???)
- range: 410km
- speed: 65km/h
- about the same as a T-72
https://honvedelem.hu/hirek/ime-a-lynx.html

Quite a few photos on those pages, so foreigners can enjoy em too.
Despite the language switch in the upper right corner, no English version for these articles are available.

 >>/50837/
So are the Hungarians setting up a new mechanised force and not replacing the equipment of existing ones then?

 >>/50838/
I think they just swap the equipment.
But I think the HDF is in a constant state of reorganization since 1990.
Although I knew a bit of the years of the people's army, they had several orders of battle during 40 years so.

Hmm, I wrote here  >>/50837/
> getting set up
At first I got the impression it's a new unit, but then they wrote it has an existing strength, ergo the unit exists right now, they just have the old vehicles.