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I have the notion to try and play some rpg here on the board. Make up a very simple system which can be complemented by the random number generator the board supports. Starting with a very simple story with very schematic heroes. This idea had a further push by the proposition of the Ameribernd to play a little Freeciv.
My problem is that how could we play it smoothly. Ofc it would be slow, but any one of us could potentially ruin the pace if he can't post for a while. For example a combat starts and it needs turns so we have to wait until every player declares what his character does and stuff like that but then one player doesn't post for whatever reason, then either the combat halts and makes us lose interest or we skip that player but then it isn't fair on him.
Maybe I approach this wrong and there can be a simple solution. But then we don't even have any system yet to examine it's pitfalls.
 >>/21300/
A wargame is fine too. Do you have something in mind?
In theme it might be something that generally doesn't comes with emotional baggage, there's a distance from our age like Rome vs. Carthage or something or fantasy settings.
I chose rpg because it's cooperative and don't create winners and losers and potential bitterness. Tho I wouldn't think this about our regular Bernds, everyone seems chill.
I also thought about some card games, like Tragic The Garnering but in a simplistic form, but this also needs too sides.
 >>/21298/

It is interesting idea of course, but we'll miss the talking non-combat part and other non-calculable interactions - it requires live dialogue, i.e. when player or team talks with DM and discuss what happens. At imageboard it couldn't be done because it may end in very long and slow discussion, especially when player and DM don't agree on results. So, role-playing part will suffer, although there are plenty of ways to organize the combat, so it will be more like hack-n-slash I guess. I don't see any real problems with combat/exploration part though.

There are plenty of online helper tools, like https://roll20.net/ (although I've only seen this, never used, but it looks promising).

> My problem is that how could we play it smoothly. Ofc it would be slow, but any one of us could potentially ruin the pace if he can't post for a while.

This may be solved by team or DM playing this character when owner is offline for tome time (need to discuss time limit though). It needs to be balanced enough to prevent player to lose interest, yes.

 >>/21300/
 >>/21301/

Wargame is interesting idea too, it has no big role-playing part with talking, so it is easy to implement online in our situation. But I'm too have concerns about competitiveness, when some player have much time and other isn't, first one will have advantage, and second may became disinterested.

I've played some game with Bernds from kc some time ago (2017 or 2018 I guess) called Conflict of Nations - it is shitty browser wargame, very slow (it has real time but units move for days), it was fun at start but in the end it became tiresome. Although being real-time it was less demanding on time than turn-based, where everyone wait for one player.

Maybe there are good free online wargames that aren't bad, but I don't know.
 >>/21303/
Hello!
What happened with /rus/? I see BO haven't logged in for a month now and the board seems to be abandoned. I saw you made a thread on /operate/ Odili or Balrog will see it and probably will delete cp. I'll report it tho but the thing is the normal report only goes to BO who isn't present. I think if I check "Global" then it will report it to the admins. But I can be completely wrong.
In the meantime feel free to browse our board and comment other threads.
>  > 21304

I reported to /operate/ but I ask you to send a report to a global moderator, since I cannot for technical reasons. The board is not abandoned and we do not need a moderator, I only worry about the servers, as they obey the stupid laws.
 >>/21301/
> Do you have something in mind?
-Not a wargame, but multiplayer Go exists and wouldn't be hard to implement. Boards can even be edited in MS Paint and play can continue quite smoothly if some player gives up.
-Some Risk variant -very simple and it's trivially easy to adjust to whichever player count there is. 
-Supremacy, which is sort of a more complex and geopolitical Risk with markets, resources and the like. Made for more than 2 players, but still a fixed number of them. But of course, adjustments are always possible.
-Axis&Allies. On the plus side it already has rules for what happens if the number of players is less than 5.
-After the Holocaust, a kc tier economic simulator (with some military mechanics) set in post-apocalyptic America and designed for 4 players. Requires a higher commitment, but looks fun.
-Tetrarchia: 4-player game set in the late Roman Empire. Supposedly simple. I know little about it, though.
I briefly thought of Diplomacy (in its Gunboat variant -no communication allowed between players, only the laconic language of moving armies), but it's designed around simultaneous action and that's hard to implement in an imageboard or redesign.

Otherwise, most wargames are strictly two-sided. A few are designed for two teams of players (e.g. there's a kc tyre North African Campaign wargame where players must keep track of everything down to each individual plane), but those are too complex and unwieldy for playing here. This leaves us with a large pool of games for 2 players. Several arrangements are possible for playing them with more than two people: one player with one side and everyone else playing the other side, several concurrent games or team play. The last is unwieldy.
Out of these, I can vouch for the two I've already mentioned ITT -Eastern Front 2 and Battle for Moscow. Boardgamegeek has several interesting possibilities I know little about it, such as Hannibal:Rome vs. Carthage, Twilight Struggle (Cold War), Napoleon:The Waterloo Campaign, but those have deeper rules and require more player commitment.

A lot of those games are set in the World Wars, so finding one without emotional baggage is harder. But there are a lot set in Antiquity, the Napoleonic Wars and other settings.

Helper programs also exist for wargames, such as VASSAL. But depending on how simple the game is, image editing software may be enough.
 >>/21317/
 >>/21318/
Well, then we should try Go in the first round.
I've no idea about it other than it's start to be fashionable nowadays due machine learning and news that how AI can or can't beat grandmasters. Also some ultrasnobbish people move to Go from chess after they realize they can't be snobby enough when they declare they play chess.
 >>/21322/
correct on all counts
however go is also a very nice game
however unlike other games of simple rules and low entry barrier, enjoying go requires first developing enough familiarity or 'intuition' (specifically an strategic discernment) and that is achieved through playing lots and lots of games, unless you are instinctively gifted (or just very smart)
this is not qualitatively different to other 'complex' games but it's probably more pronounced in go than, for example, chess
this board is much too slow to provide for that necessary initial buildup
so playing go in the board should be fun but it will be better if people at least have previous exposure to it (it's simply not the same as say a game of draughts)
 >>/22073/
Well then, adjourn this Go party.
But, we could play Gomoku, being much easier.
Fun fact: on the Hungary we call this game amoeba as the game. When we play it on paper, we usually outline each matches to separate them from others - since one paper can hold many matches -, which emphasizes an amoeba look as it usually drawn sloppy with rounded corners and such.
 >>/35790/
I liek it's up and can be add new stuff if it's needed.
I have all the text and images (what I wrote, not the comments and other table-top stuff Bernd posted), I should probably make ans pdf, we even talked about this, but that wouldn't be a "organic" thing then. Also was some talk with BO that we should create an archive of worthy threads on our own somewhere on a free server.
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Does Bernd know about Battletech? I remember I posted about Battletech the pc game some time ago and there was a minimal interest. Well I got into the tabletop version. 
If someone isn't aware what it is, it's basically about giant robots (battlemechs) shooting and punching each other in the distant but not too much distant future (few hundreds years from now). 
There's actually few games under that brand: there's the wargame that has like multiple levels of complexity and whether you want to include ground vehicles and spaceships or not; there's Alpha Strike game which is supposed to be very simple and fast; lastly there's the RPG A Time of War where you focus on playing as people and not the mechs, but it strongly encourages to mix it with the wargame (for example the free pdf the creators put on their website has a adventure where the last chapter can be played either as a Battletech or Alpha Strike game). 
There's ton of fiction as well and the game lore and what not for all the nerds who like to get into this kind of stuff. I find myself slowly drawn into this while I distance myself from warhammer 40k. As a wargame it feels much more cooler and dramatic, with lots of memorable moments. Im talking about situations like when you score a lucky headshot on an opponent and kill the pilot while keeping his machine intact, or when your mech is badly damaged, limbs blown off and your wounded pilot is doing his best to escape and preserve his life while constantly under fire. Or when your guns got disabled so you uproot a tree or pick up a blown off arm and proceed to beat your opponent to death with it as an improvised club. 
I own a boxed set A Game of Armored Combat which has everything you need to play (the figurines, the mapsheets, rulebook etc., just not enough dices) which I occasionally play with friends. Ofc there's a lot more stuff that you buy separately, but unfortunately its kind of lacking. The current producer of those things (Catalyst Game Labs) got their license somewhat recently and they're not a big or popular company like Games Workshop, so some mechs and other things exist only on paper, or as older models (which imo look not good) or 3d prints people made themselves. Thankfully they're constantly working and expanding their wares so this problem can be solved by simply waiting (or getting into 3d modelling and printing). 
There's also this fan made application called MegaMek which you can use to play the tabletop wargame on pc, either against other people or against a somewhat competent bot. It's very good at simulating all the original rules (which tbh can feel bloated sometimes), but it also doesnt teach you anything on how to play the game itself, which as I understand it is to avoid any copyright strikes and related stuff. What many people do (myself included) is to play a campaign in megamek where you take on contracts as a mercenary unit, manage your staff, your mechs, finances, logistics etc. Application takes care of computing everything, generating avaiable contracts, stuff on the market, what opponents you will face. You could even print the generated stuff, play a tabletop battle and then input the results back into your pc campaign. 
Catalyst have free pdf with introductory rules on their website, I think its enough to get a taste of how the game feels like and perhaps get into full game in MegaMek without the need to get the full rulebook.
 >>/48421/
https://github.com/MegaMek/megamek
Sounds good, but I'm far from sure I would enjoy it. Or could hold my interest. Jagged Alliance failed too. I know I would have enjoyed it back then. It's just these days. Plus suddenly I got even less tiem.
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 >>/48421/
> There's ton of fiction as well and the game lore

> The current producer of those things (Catalyst Game Labs)

It seems there is/was some US culture-wars battle between one long-time writer of the franchise and the current owner of the brand (CGL). Not clear but it seems the writer, Pardoe, was in the socially-conservative team and was fired by the company.
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 >>/48421/
> Does Bernd know about Battletech?

Yes  >>/12642/

We've played tabletop wargame, but most time was spent in Mechwarrior RPG. I even was a DM. It was time when internet was relatively slow and we had to visit local players community (mostly middle-aged beer drinkers) to get home-recorded CD-Rs with pdfs. That was a good time.

> where you focus on playing as people and not the mechs, but it strongly encourages to mix it with the wargame

We've tried, but this wasn't fun. Wargame playing style is very different from typical RPG, and it is hard to put constant table battles to RPG story. Maybe more wargame-oriented people will find it fun though.

Even RPG battles were not so fun sometimes, because when you try to use full set of rules with separate limb damage etc, they are becoming long. One playing session may be just a long battle with constant dice rolls. Typical D&D fight feels much faster. Trying to play more realistic (because setting is sci-fi, not fantasy) also gives another problem - typical wound recovery from few shots may last for weeks in game time, and this breaks story much. Compare this to D&D when you restore hit points easily and often with magic. But anyway, that was fun, it is sad that our group can't even find time to just meeting in person now.

> Ofc there's a lot more stuff that you buy separately, but unfortunately its kind of lacking

You don't really need figurines to play BT. It isn't WH, and basically can be played even with coins as mechs (as we did), or with substitutes (any miniatures). Maybe it isn't that immersive, but for such type of wargame it is mostly ok I think. Maps can be printed easily. 

> older models

They've stole old designs from anime show in 80s and then suffered for years in courts. That is why many older models aren't allowed to be even printed in manuals. Although Catalyst redrew them recently as far as I know.

Megamek is a good tool, maybe it is only computer game that strictly follows original rules. Modern Battletech game is also not so bad, it is relatively fun, although 4 mech limit is boring, and there is no clans.
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 >>/48464/
Nice. I remember in one of computer games thread where I mentioned BT the pc game you seemed like a knower.
I never played the RPG. It was something I was willing to try, but me and my group have a lot of variouts tabletop games that we still hadn't played so I decided to stick to the wargame only. 

> You don't really need figurines to play BT.
That is true for any wargame I think. Worst case scenario someone who runs a tournament wont let you in.
> can be played even with coins as mechs (as we did), or with substitutes (any miniatures).
The box I own and some others on the market include several cardboard mechs along with the actual figurines so Im aware of that. 
I think 3d printing is the best solution for someone who has access to it. There are tens or maybe hundreds of 3d models avaiable on the net for free already and I have a friend with the printer and he charges only for the materials. Getting them from a proffesional 3d printing company might turn out too expensive.

https://www.myminifactory.com/users/Itgl72/collection/battletech
Those are directly pulled from the MWO/Mechwarrior 5 game I think so idk whats the legal status of those but so far no one removed them. 

> Although Catalyst redrew them recently as far as I know.
Yeah I think they went to court over this again and all the so called unseen mechs are back in business. Phoenix Hawk my beloved
 >>/48467/
I looked at those models and made me remember my problem with the mechs when I briefly played MechCommander. I don't see the point of them being humanlike. Anthropomorph. Stuff like the Catapult, Madcat, they make sense, but Atlas, Wolverine, etc. don't. Why making a proper head, and fingers? They don't really need arms. Mount points for various weapons, sure. But big pistols and submachineguns and stuff like that, wtf?!
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 >>/48469/
>  don't see the point of them being humanlike. Anthropomorph. Stuff like the Catapult, Madcat, they make sense, but Atlas, Wolverine, etc. don't. Why making a proper head, and fingers? They don't really need arms. 

Original authors of game just decided to make game about big walking robots.

Don't try to find any serious realism in BT universe. In tabletop rules, most of mech weapons have effective ranges less than 1km. Artillery and aviation is very underrepresented in combat and do almost nothing compared to real world (not even talking about future). There are no battles with million people involved, no tactical missiles that shoot for hundreds of kilometers etc.

But I don't think that authors had a choice - with realistic approach you can't make game centered around walking robots fighting each other.

I guess authors originally didn't make combat rules for specific universe, but made universe specifically around mech battles. It may be viewed as sci-fi with some fantasy-style heroic feel. BT world mostly has Western feudal structure with lords, barons and counts. Mechwarriors are basically knights. Technological part is pretty bleak, most of tech is something that we can easily understand right now (except hyperspace drives).
In real life mechs would be quite easy to spot and shoot and hard to armour because of the surface area they have exposed. So to fix that you would make the mech lie prone and give it treads and a rotating turret at which point you have a tank.

The only use I think a mech would have would be to walk around difficult terrain like mountains but those mechs would still be a lot smaller that they are in media and more like an artillery piece with legs.
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 >>/48470/
 >>/48472/
 >>/48473/
"Realistically" mechs could be a variation of exoskeletons. With armor, and mount points for weapons.
They don't need to be several meter tall robots. As for the dimensions could be a height of a tank (2-3 m) max, the width and length are obviously less. Not sure about the speed, or agility, or the power source... (gadget X propulsion)
They could fix machine guns, anti-material rifles, infantry anti-tank rockets, even mortars upon them. Or some kind of a multiple rocket launchers (like on the Catapult models or something).
They should withstand small arm and machine gun fire, grenade and mortar shrapnel, anti-infantry mines, but I wouldn't expect them to withstand something more serious.
Maybe they could climb stairs, or the lighter models could scale walls.
They should have some kind of HUD, with screens which could display video feed (from other mechs, or drones).
One problem I see especially with the heavier ones: the pressure from the weight is distributed on too small areas (soles). They would need wide feet.
 >>/48476/
Yeah, something like that.
Except whom they would want to pilot it aren't bodybuilder hunks, but skellington nerds, 60 kilos with the iron bed tops. Weight would matter.
Power source and the engine, servos have to carry their own weight, the skeleton's weight (this could be done from a strong but light material like titanium perhaps, or even aluminium, it's cheaper), the pilot's weight, the armor, and the weapons. Plus the electronics, but that would be the lightest.
I'm also thinking some models don't need to be exoskeletons, the bloke would be placed in a seat in a capsule. These models could be wider.

I liek the idea more and more.
They are better moving machine gun nests then cars, since they could use cover, shooting around the corner (they could put cameras onto the mount points). Although on roads cars would be way faster I believe.
They would be fine from drones, due the the weaponry they carry. I'd add infantry AA rockets too, so they could counter helicopters too. But drones can be peppered with machine guns. Miniguns would also be an option.
And these mechs would work in teams. With their own command mech, and recon mech, with drones, and various electronic recon equipment. They would have night vision, heat vision, all vision. Could have artillery, AA, AT sections. Supply mechs carrying ammo and spare ordnance. Could deploy smoke cover. And do a bunch of shit.
Now just solve the problem of propulsion. And the survivability of the pilot.

Here's an article for me for later readin:
https://www.claws.in/drone-and-counter-drone-warfare-at-tactical-level/
Not sure how credible this site is.
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 >>/48478/
I guess battletech has that covered too since a thing called Protomechs exists. I guess it's still a mech since its a vehicle that is piloted by a person rather than an armor that he is wearing. It fills that size niche in between the smallest "normal" mechs and the battle armor. This is also where the skinny dudes are put in (the faction that produces them has a eugenics program going on and a caste system based on it). Protomechs can't really survive under heavy fire so they rely on their small size and speed for survival.
 >>/48483/
Yes and no. Some could be very much like armor  >>/48476/ but less anthropomorph; and some could be "seaters", even less anthropomorph, which could fit in the category you mentioned. But how the authors and illustrators imagined, this humanoid robot form, no.
> skinny dudes are put in (the faction that produces them has a eugenics program going on and a caste system based on it)
Not horses are bred in that universe, but the jockeys. Heh.
They really wrote their fiction around the theme. Cool.
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Reading a novel plays in the setting of MAGUS, on Ynev, in the South. Deep South.
The hero travels through the steppes south of Sempeyer towards the southernmost mountains (see map here:  >>/19931/). He joins a caravan of merchants visiting the nomads roaming around, trading their valuable goods originating from far away lands for "horses and knickknacks". These friggin nomads outjew the fantasyjews! Not the merchants the ones selling glassbeads to the nomads for furs and whatnot, but the other way around! My brain just stops reading this book.
But also made me thinking how trade should be done on nomad lands. Well, "nomad" as I wrote elsewhere. And I don't want to theorize about how it was here on Earth, but in such fantasy setting, or how can happen on Ynev.
 >>/50746/
My problem with that trading practice is twofold:
1. the aforementioned exotic goods for knickknacks
2. for horses.
I think the first point needs no explanation, but the second does. If merchants accepted horses as payment, they pretty much would end up with a herd in short notice, which they should herd on from that point - doing the job of nomads. And merchants aren't nomads, but merchants.
Well they are nomads... Here I have to mention the point I made elsewhere that calling steppe people "nomad" is false. Anyway.
So merchants aren't herders, they would need to employ herders for herd all the horses they got in exchange for their goods. This is silly. The mobile "nomads" can herd their horses to markets if they want goods. It is no use to travel to them for that.
Ofc I can make up reasons why would be a good idea to seek out the steppe people on their homeland. For example for furs. Or felt.
Beside horses steppe people can also herd other animals to the lands of sedimentary people, cattle, sheep, goats, and even pigs.
But all this from the top of my heda. Perhaps will think more.
 >>/50750/
In sedentary land there probably is someone who buys horses, cattle, sheep, etc. in bulk. Several someones. In 16-18th centuries (or even later) Hungarian herders drove cattle to Vienna from the Great Plains like that.
In the book the author describes merchant colonies along the caravan road, where some nomads seem to come to seasonally. And he is halfway there to the truth. Steppe people on Earth had settlements (as I stated elsewhere), not everyone had pastoral profession, and there were works to be done which are impossible to do on horseback, most notably creating the tools of war. Where all the arrows came from? A tumen was 10000 warriors, each having arrows not just one quiver. All arrows needed blacksmiths and fletchers. It needed wood, feather, and iron. These needed further people who had to produce the materials. In case of iron, not necessary miners, because lots of the material came from bog iron, but still. There were mines too. Or the wooden structure of the yurt needed carpenters. These aren't just crude sticks tied together any amateur can produce, but wrought staves, and rims. These need proper tools, workbenches, and skill. These are just a couple of jobs from the top of my head. The clothing, blankets were home made for sure by their women while men were on the fields with the livestock.
Along the branches of the silk road large cities could be found (some the size of ancient Rome), some with a mix of population on the periphery of the steppes. But inside the steppes (eg. Sarkel), outsider immigrants were minority.
These cities were the trade centers where the wranglers and "cowboys" and shepherds drove their animals to. Some were sold right to butchers (cities the size of Rome consumed a lot), but sure were many people who wanted them on all fours, since food preserves alive the longest.
Trivia: steppe horses are usually small, "rough" creatures, but in Fergana they reared such breeds which were similar to majestic Arab horses, and were fed with oat fodder.

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