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 >>/46919/
> you will hate whomever we say you hate and you will be happy
There were the Yugo wars in the neighbour at our doorstep, with greater destruction, and actual ethnic cleansing (and indiscriminate NATO bombing), now everyone pretends none of those happened.

 >>/46989/
> I don't see how is different.
I think that "current thing" meme describes it well. It's some "big" issue flooding the media, everything else basically a footnote. I open up a random news site, the landing page is:
> UKRAINE, UKRAINE
> UKRAINE, UKRAINE, UKRAINE, UKRAINE
> something else
> UKRAINE, UKRAINE
Before that it was covid (and some BLM and Taiwan mixed in), but before that it wasn't this bad. Maybe the 2016 US Prez election was similar. Syrian war was an occasional thing and 2011 must sounds ancient times for many. Sure 2015 migrant crisis was in the focus, but then it wasn't this bad, with a recurring atrocities that happened in Europe. If anything those were played down as much as possible, just couple of events were really "penetrative", like the Charlie Hebdo shooting. Noone reembers the theater attack in Paris now.

 >>/46992/
> Some video from Mariupol I though I'd share 
Thanks.
> Where will all those people go to though?
Men will stay since they are forbidden to leave. Some still leaves. But generally those people can go to Russia, or elsewhere in Ukraine. They can flee to neighbouring countries, mostly to Poland. But Romania/Moldova is closer from there.

 >>/47009/
Some Slovene on bernd.group says a nuclear war would be nothing.

 >>/47012/
Do they (we, actually) have a collective offense article somewhere?

 >>/47022/
> I wonder if any other militaries are covering this in such a manner.
They have way better understanding on whats going on due to the fact that they have information about the situation. Military intelligence exist, and I bet all the other agencies are stuffing them with info.

 >>/47024/
> escape to Poland
Situation indeed must be very desperate if getting into Poland counts as an "escape".
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 >>/47042/
> They have way better understanding on whats going on due to the fact that they have information about the situation. Military intelligence exist, and I bet all the other agencies are stuffing them with info.

True but I mean are they releasing stuff like this to the public? Also interesting in all of this, Austria isn't in Nato so they would not be a party to much of that intelligence anyway. Maybe that's part of the reason why they are making this, because they are more neutral and so they can.
 >>/47042/
> Do they (we, actually) have a collective offense article somewhere?
Im not sure, but we did attack Afghanistan, no? 
Someone could stage a false flag attack using russian equipment to provoke a military response from NATO as described in article 5 haha.... Nah it wont happen. Just a crazy thought I had. No one would ever do that.
 >>/47043/
> True but I mean are they releasing stuff like this to the public?
Maybe, to some extent. Main thing is for the political and economical leadership the public must have a way of thinking which is created by the media. The armies mustn't allowed to publish anything that goes against this. Even that Austrian video, he speaks mostly in generalities. I hear him mentioning various units from both sides which is new to me (I only saw that website somewhere above I posted, giving info about Russian units), but even that is vague.
They have other interesting videos on that channel, for example this:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=5n7jAXgxFRQ
https://invidious.snopyta.org/watch?v=5n7jAXgxFRQ
How a Russian "tactical battalion group" works. I assume it's kind of a kampfgruppe.

 >>/47047/
> Afghanistan
That was a police operation!!!
> false flag attack using russian equipment to provoke a military response from NATO
That tu-141 incident sounds like one.
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If this is true that's pretty big. But I don't really think it is, I don't think Russia is actually negotiating in good faith. They have crossed the Rubicon and I don't think that they will accept anything other than total victory.

 >>/47054/
But it doesn't show the missile impact, I want to see that to make sure it was one. I think it probably was but it also could have done a Mutsu.
So it's about a month now. Up until this point it was asked when will Russia defeat Ukraine? Now we can ask another question. When the sanctions will defeat Russia?
The war is ongoing, there are results, especially in the south, Kherson, Energodar, and they soon finish up Mariupol (according to Al Jazeera, Russians moved into the city center yesterday). If that's done, the freed up troops can be moved further. Will they take seriously the negotiations if they can have a better position at the table if they have a better position on the fronts?
Sanctions are ongoing, and there are some results. They made the life uncomfortable and unsure enough for quite a few Russian whom looking for opportunities now in other countries. There seems to be shortages, especially in grains and sugar. But to be honest in these two, the shortage is the result of the sudden over purchase by the customers who are filling up the pantry just in case. Like the corona tp panic buying. I doubt Russia imports grain and sugar from the US and Western Europe. They can produce grain, and I think sugar is coming from Brazil, if I have to guess. In worst case scenario they could even grow sugar beet on the long term.
Along with several countries we vetoed sanctioning the Russian fossil fuel export today.

Btw NATO builds up forces in Eastern Europe, they move ~40K soldiers hereabout. Battlegroups are set up, here we put together one pure Hungarian, and it seems an international one will also raised in our country, with the participation of US, Croat, Turkish, Italian, and Montenegrin troops.
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Alright, so yesterday on the 25th of March the Head of the Main Operational Directorate of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation Colonel General Sergei Rudskoy gave a speech. I actually found it, it was posted in English on the Russian militaries website, but I had to use an Austrian proxy to access it.

I'll post the link but others might not be able to access it so I will mention some key points, like anything in this war, take it with a grain of salt.
https://eng.mil.ru/en/special_operation/news/more.htm?id=12414735@egNews

So, they say the main goal of the 'special military operation' was to protect the people of Luhansk and Donetsk who they say were being genocided.

> There were two possible courses of action.
> The first is to limit the territory to only the DPR and the LPR within the administrative borders of the Donetsk and Lugansk regions, which is enshrined in the constitutions of the republics. But then we would be faced with constant feeding by the Ukrainian authorities of the grouping involved in the so-called joint force operation.
> Therefore, the second option was chosen, which provides for actions throughout the territory of Ukraine with the implementation of measures for its demilitarization and denazification.
> The course of the operation confirmed the validity of this decision.

They are saying that there plan was to cut of Ukrainian units and to destroy there fighting ability, which they say they have achieved.

> These actions are carried out with the aim of causing such damage to military infrastructure, equipment, personnel of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the results of which allow not only to shackle their forces and do not give them the opportunity to strengthen their grouping in the Donbass, but also will not allow them to do so until the Russian army completely liberates the territories of the DPR and LPR.
> Initially, we did not plan to storm them in order to prevent destruction and minimize losses among personnel and civilians.
> And although we do not rule out such a possibility, however, as individual groups complete their tasks, and they are being solved successfully, our forces and means will concentrate on the main thing – the complete liberation of Donbass.
Cont.

> 16 main military airfields were defeated, from which combat sorties of the AFU aviation were carried out. 39 storage bases and arsenals were destroyed, which contained up to 70% of all stocks of military equipment, materiel and fuel, as well as more than 1 million 54 thousand tons of ammunition.
> All 24 formations of the Land Forces that existed before the start of the operation suffered significant losses. Ukraine has no organized reserves left.
> Losses are replenished at the expense of mobilized persons and personnel of the territorial defence forces who do not have the necessary training, which increases the risk of large losses.
> At the time of the start of the special military operation, the Armed Forces of Ukraine, together with the National Guard, numbered 260 thousand 200 servicemen. During the month of hostilities, their losses amounted to about 30 thousand people, including more than 14 thousand - irretrievable and about 16 thousand - sanitary.
> Of the 2,416 tanks and other armored fighting vehicles that were in combat on February 24, 1,587 units were destroyed; 636 units out of 1,509 field artillery guns and mortars; 163 out of 535 MLRS; 112 out of 152 aircraft, 75 out of 149 helicopters; 36 Bayraktar TB2 UAVs - 35;

Then there is a bunch of stuff about Humanitarian aid and such and then more on NATO aid and foreign mercenaries, yada yada.

And they close with this.

> We receive a large number of appeals from Russian citizens wishing to take part in the special military operation to liberate Ukraine from Nazism.
> In addition, more than 23,000 foreigners from 37 countries have expressed their willingness to fight on the side of the people's republics. We offered the leadership of the LPR and DPR to accept this assistance, but they said they would defend their land themselves.
> They have enough power and resources.
> The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation will continue to conduct a planned special military operation until the tasks set by the Supreme Commander-in-Chief have been completed.

So they seem to think they are doing fine at least.
 >>/47054/
Impressive.
Since Berdiansk is already in Russian control, those are Russian ships there?

 >>/47055/
I doubt Ukrainians negotiating in good faith. Zelensky and co. was probably told to drag things as long as possible (they're gonna have a free ride out secured if things gets too hot anyway), so western/US companies can earn on the wartime boom. Besides now that many Russian companies are done in large part of the world, westerners have to take their places and earn more.
> They have crossed the Rubicon
Yes, whatever was their intention and original goals, after Western media campaign they can't accept anything less then total victory or it can be turned into prestige loss, no matter how large would be the gain. Actually, we are told that the steps Western powers took are devastating so whatever the result will be, we will be told Russia lost the war.
> But it doesn't show the missile impact
I assume the bloke started to film after he saw the impact.

 >>/47061/
Yeah.
 >>/47062/
 >>/47063/
Could open the page and read it, thanks.
Essentially it's a list, with some commentary/narration about the liberation of the Donbas, Nazis in Ukraine, and demilitarization.
There are quite bold claims about the reduction of the fighting capability of the Ukrainian army, if those are true we shall see the resistance crumbling.
Saw other interesting points, maybe I'll return to those.
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 >>/46970/
Thanks, those are interesting. One thing it does not clarify is whether the reconnaissance data is radio-transmitted in real time back to control centres, or stored in place (magnetic tapes?) for later retrieval and decoding.
> Гофбауэр

German engineer?
 >>/46969/
Hmm. A "subsonic cruise missile"-type aircraft of ~5.3 tons and capable of flying at up to 1100 km/h has unexpectedly entered the country's airspace and appears to be flying out of control. It's OK if it comes from Ukr but an act of aggression if it comes from Rus? I'm not convinced. What if the thing fell onto a residence? It did fall close to an urban area after all...
Milanovic, from one of those articles:
> the drone flew in from Ukraine, at an altitude of 1,300 metres, at a speed of over 500 knots [over 926 km/h]

> but was not detected in real-time by anyone's air defenses

> Milanovic underlined ... how troubling it is that the drone was not detected during its relatively long flight, stating: “What I wonder is, how is it possible that an unsophisticated drone had flown unnoticed for nearly an hour in the air space of NATO member states, and that nobody noticed... the joint NATO command in Spain that should have all the information in real-time, in the shortest possible period of time and react, yet nothing happened”

> we must ascertain ... how come a drone the size of an airplane was not struck down on its path from evidently Ukraine to Zagreb

> The radars detected it

So it was radar-detected but not in real time? Meaning, people only noticed after going back and looking at radar recordings? That might explain why fighters weren't scrambled to intercept it, if it is true that no fighters did. I think this is plausible because otherwise it would be quite strange for them to allow it to fall on Zagreb. They would have shot it down sooner while over unpopulated terrain.
As for the origin, I don't see why Rus/Belorus would do this. There are many videos from this conflict demonstrating that Rus have their own surveillance drones, no need to take this old thing, mothballed for ~30 years, out the hangar. If it was launched by Ukr, was it accident or deliberate? An accident is easy to imagine: the thing is not very maneuverable, very old, it could have gone out of control. However, if so, one would expect Ukr to inform its NATO benefactors, to warn them of the danger (the thing flew for nearly an hour, there was surely time for a warning call). But if, as stated, the thing was not detected in real time (which would be supported by the idea that fighters were not sent to intercept it), then nobody warned Romania/Hungary/Croatia of the incident. (Ukraine also publicly denied having launched it and claimed that the aircraft did not have the Ukr coat of arms logo, but those prove nothing: public denial is not incompatible with private acknowledgement of an accident, and a false-flag by definition doesn't use its flag of origin. [The photo of the alleged Tu-141 shot down in Crimea also does not have the Ukr paint job, it seems to have a red star instead]) If it was deliberate then it would be a false-flag attempt to draw NATO into the conflict. We have seen kiev repeatedly try to goad and guilt-trip nato into getting involved, so, although crazy, I think this is not unimaginable. (They use the phrase "no-fly zone" as if by the mere declaration this becomes a thing. Actually what they ask is nato to enter the war on their side)
 >>/46989/
I'm just saying that in Europe it is different from the Syria conflict, due to the massive media and political buzz. As I said, maybe it is the same in Turkey and I don't have a problem believing that it is
 >>/47078/
> romania and serbia sieze the day.jpg
That is clearly shopped.
The other one I can imagine appeared in American news. In case of CNN it could be even a deliberate mistake, a rap, a humiliation.
> false-flag
Hungary entered WWII after someone bombed Kassa just after Barbarossa started. This provided the casus belli. Couple of houses were damaged (a post office and a liek), not sure about lost lives from the top of my head. Up till this day noone knows who dropped the bombs, everyone and their grandmothers were blamed for it, Soviet, Germans, Romanians, Northern Hungarians, Hungarians. Who wanted us entering the war? Who profited from it? Who had access to the used bombs and airplane. All the same story as this drone bs.
Infa 100% NATO command and all the allied militaries knew about it coming, politicians might not. They most likely not. But they are the ones who talk about it, and they have to talk about it, because great news, and again they can appear important and in action, busy, demanding and coordinating, checking, and sending messages and having talks and whatnot.
The drone flew about an hour in Romania, Hungary, and Croatia. I think when it was detected the officer on duty decided just to keep an eye on it, maybe initiated requests of info what's going on, and what should they do. If at every stop on every level the messages and inquires spent couple of minutes unhandled that easily amassed that 1 hour. By the time the word got around, it fell out of the skies. After that hurrying wasn't a priority.
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There has been some degree of barbarism spreading over ukrainian cities/towns. There are dozens of videos showing civilians being publicly punished and humiliated by an assortment of soldiers, police, para-militaries, civilian mobs, and whatnot. Children and women are also being mistreated like this. The reasons are simply unknown but there are many accusations and speculations: alleged theft or desertion, lurking outside in curfew, being pro-russian, a separatist, speaking russian in public, etc. These public humiliation displays are apparently not a new development: there are similar videos from previous years. People have pointed out that the same kind of public punishments (tying people up on lamp posts, beating them, humiliating them, leaving them out in the cold) have been carried out before around the time of WW2 (there are some pics)
On the MSM this is mostly ignored. The pro-ukr mouthpieces that do comment on it are simply taking the words of the accusers at face value ("they must be looters, the punishment is deserved"). I showed some of these videos to some pro-ukr NPCs around me (people who support ukr because "it's the current right thing to do", not because they have any personally-developed conviction or knowledge of the conflict) and they were quite disgusted, though.
More recently, I have seen video of what appear to be ukr troops deliberately maiming what appear to be rus/lndr prisoners (shooting them on the legs). There's also video of a ukr soldier calling the mother of a fallen rus soldier to mock her. The brutality of the Donbas civil war is still around

 >>/47078/
> I don't see why Rus/Belorus would do this

Actually, one plausible theory is that the thing may work as a decoy to smoke out air defenses
 >>/47081/
Hm. Yeah, maybe. Maybe Milanovic just wasn't informed and he projected his ignorance on NATO. Who knows.
 >>/47055/
> But it doesn't show the missile impact

I read some people saying it could have been a barrage of MLRS rather than a missile. It could explain the widespread fire
> They have crossed the Rubicon and I don't think that they will accept anything other than total victory.

Officially, the goals of the "victory" have been the same from the start: LNDR independence, recognition of Crimea, neutrality, "demilitarisation", and "denazifiation". What the first 3 mean seems pretty clear. The meaning of the last 2 is less clear. Unofficially, though, there have been some vague pronouncements that suggest that rus could go further than that ("if they continue in this path they put into question the continuation of ukr statehood"). You seem to be taking the latter as the real meaning of "victory" while I thought that was just a negotiating position or a threat.
 >>/47075/
> I doubt Ukrainians negotiating in good faith. Zelensky and co. was probably told to drag things as long as possible (they're gonna have a free ride out secured if things gets too hot anyway), so western/US companies can earn on the wartime boom. Besides now that many Russian companies are done in large part of the world, westerners have to take their places and earn more.
> Yes, whatever was their intention and original goals, after Western media campaign they can't accept anything less then total victory or it can be turned into prestige loss, no matter how large would be the gain. Actually, we are told that the steps Western powers took are devastating so whatever the result will be, we will be told Russia lost the war.
Even if Zelensky wanted to accept a reasonable deal (e.g. accepting Russian control of the Donbass and Crimea, abandoning the idea of joining NATO and some minor internal changes), he could get immediately overthrown if the Ukrainian elite or military brass think they can still fight. On the other side, Putin has no reason to accept moderate gains if he has reason to think Western sanctions wouldn't significantly weaken - if he's getting harsh sanctions one way or another, he might as well push for the largest possible gains. Both tendencies lead to a long and bitter war.

 >>/47082/
>  There are dozens of videos showing civilians being publicly punished and humiliated by an assortment of soldiers, police, para-militaries, civilian mobs, and whatnot. Children and women are also being mistreated like this. The reasons are simply unknown but there are many accusations and speculations: alleged theft or desertion, lurking outside in curfew, being pro-russian, a separatist, speaking russian in public, etc.
In part that's just the nature of total war, which requires the repression of draft dodgers, disturbers of public order, deserters, defeatists, apologists for the enemy, potential fifth columnists, enemy infiltrators and so on. States will enforce that very brutally if they feel the need to. But it's not just that, it's also hate.
 >>/47082/
> barbarism
I would say that's the level of people there, the darkest minds sovok can produce. But what would have happened with that Rittenhouse kid if he had not shot the blokes there? If I really want to cite an example. Because people will always find an excuse to abuse others.
Pro-Ukraine western media is quite hypocritical in this (too).

> may work as a decoy to smoke out air defenses
Do some relatively harmless stuff as bait for provoking reaction, observe it, make deductions, and build the gained info into the plans. It's a type of recon.

> Milanovic
While both in Croatia and here the President of the Republic technically is the high commander of the army, I doubt he gets alarmed by the military every time someone farts. What could Milanovic or Áder do anyway? Get an AK and shoot at the sky? I do really think NATO knew what's going on and decided it's mostly harmless. Then came morning and the people wanted answers. But the morning the prez just woke up too so he needed to get infos too. Then started the whole bs, because the only thing he could reply to the people was: we're looking into it, because that's what he did at the time. Milanovic asked the Croat military, they said this happened, came from Hungary, so he called Orbán asking what's up, and Orbán asked our military, and called back Milanovic and said this was up. Meanwhile they also called Iohannis in Bucharest and asked what's up and NATO HQ too with sames, and ofc Zelensky and Putin and Lukashenko (well probably not really them just ambassadors, who called back home too). There was a whole lotta phonecalls back and fourth and across, that took time especially when all sides take their time.
> put into question the continuation of ukr statehood"
They can install another govt and prez too.

 >>/47085/
> he could get immediately overthrown if the Ukrainian elite or military brass think they can still fight
That's the question if they still have any capabilities left. While not taking that Russian report here  >>/47062/ entirely srsly, I have to assume Ukraine suffered high losses, especially in material/technical and logistical means.
> if he's getting harsh sanctions one way or another, he might as well push for the largest possible gains.
True.
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Some villages captured, some lost, some who even knows what state they are in, but things seem to be heating up in Mariupol and more footage is coming out(from Chechens in particular). They are making progress there but who knows how much longer it will take. Some of the footage is interesting because it shows separate units of the Russian army in close cooperation, you see Chechens, Russian naval Infantry and Russian soldiers operating right along side each other. Of course there is a bias here, the regular Russians don't film much but the Chechens do, if they film everything and that includes the odd time they meet up with Russians and so much of the footage we have of Russian soldiers in action is filmed by Chechens, then it will look like they work close to Russians much more than they do.

This Chechen footage also makes it look like Syria...

 >>/47082/
It's a concern, but then they are Slavs, they were never known for being nice. There is the nature of the war as well, the Russians are Slavs as well but what they are sending in is mostly professional(or at least conscripts) plus DPR and LPR who are something weird that contain an unknown percentage of actual Russian soldiers anyway and the reason they say they are there is that they are going there for the Ukrainian people to get rid of tyrant Nazis so they really can't afford to go around doing anything too nasty. However, while the regular Ukrainian army may actually be professional(and more so than the Russians as they are actually professional not conscripts) a large part of the Ukrainian forces and perhaps even the majority of them now are made up of paramilitaries and militia including groups like Azov Battalion and Right Sector. These guys clearly are not going to play by the same rule book as the regular Ukrainian army. So it may be that these actions are being taken by these extremists groups not the regulars. Not that this excuses it at all.
 >>/47088/
 >>/47089/
Cool videos. Feel free to post more or link them.
> makes it look like Syria...
Has that vibe, yes.
Looks like actual war footage. I did not go out of my way to find videos, I just saw very few that actually shows hits or even shootings.
Probably Chechens have practice in these things.

> plus DPR and LPR
Gave me an idea.
Perhaps the difference between the Russian losses reported by Ukraine and Russia - besides the bias of both - can be explained that Russians provide numbers that are only their own, while Ukrainians group the losses of those republics with the Russian numbers. Maybe even Chechen numbers play some role too.
 >>/47078/
>  >Гофбауэр
> German engineer? 

Probably a Jew, although maybe German from locals (there is no reliable info).

> One thing it does not clarify is whether the reconnaissance data is radio-transmitted in real time back to control centres, or stored in place (magnetic tapes?) for later retrieval and decoding. 

Internet says that both methods were used, although I don't think radio channel was good in 70s, so it is additional, not main mode.

> The photo of the alleged Tu-141 shot down in Crimea also does not have the Ukr paint job, it seems to have a red star instead

It has square around red star that is identified as remains of new UA logo painted over old one using not so good paint. 

> one would expect Ukr to inform its NATO benefactors, to warn them of the danger (the thing flew for nearly an hour, there was surely time for a warning call)

If it was Ukrainian it malfunctioned so they may don't know where it is flying or if it is flying at all. If control channel is lost, and local radar coverage isn't in good shape (after missile strikes) it isn't easy to detect such thing, and I guess no one cared much.
 >>/47088/
> paramilitaries and militia including groups like Azov Battalion

Azov isn't paramilitary, it is regiment of National Guard now. It was paramilitary volunteer force only in first years after Crimea. Now they even have tanks.

> Chechens

Social media warriors, mostly. As always. 
One LDNR officer said this openly, and they forced him to apologize as always: https://www.stav.kp.ru/daily/27369/4561532/
Chechen-Russian relations never change even on frontline.

 >>/47058/
> In worst case scenario they could even grow sugar beet on the long term.

It isn't that good. In 2019 only 0.6% of sugar beet seeds were Russian-made. Now import is very restricted, and there will be problems, although it doesn't mean that there will be no sugar beet of course, but maybe less in current year.

Actually problems are everywhere. As example - modern bearings were made only at few factories, and all of them used western tools extensively (and were partially owned): https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/5252504

Russian economy is very dependent of foreign tools and materials, and situation with restricted import is much serious that all this monetary thing that happens at bank level. China can't replace everything, and Chinese companies sometimes also follow sanctions when they have large western market. There is shortage even in office paper now because components for paper whitening weren't made locally too.
 >>/47094/
> One LDNR officer said this openly, and they forced him to apologize as always
Well, with those beards, success is inevitable. He should have known.
That article links another one, where that officer criticized the Chechens:
https://www.kp.ru/daily/27377/4558736/
It's about the siege of Mariupol. I recommend to read it, especially for Australianbernd, it gives some insight about what's going on.

> It isn't that good.
Yes it is subpar compared to cane sugar.
> Actually problems are everywhere
> China can't replace everything
The situation will only normalize on the long term. Both Russian and Chinese companies stepping in to produce what's necessary. Maybe other countries too. Ofc probably never be the same level of supply. As for quality, that might suffer (now shouldn't mistake durability/longevity with quality, while those can be part of it).
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Continuing from  >>/47082/ and referring to the comments about the real extent of russian demands and what would constitute "victory":  >>/47055/  >>/47085/  >>/47086/  >>/47062/
Regardless of official positions, and unofficial bravado, one should attempt a cost/benefit analysis. The Ru MOD has acknowledged >1300 KIA. That's no small amount. In absolute terms it's similar to the losses per day suffered by Armenia+NK in the defeat vs. Azerbaijan, quite high. After adjusting for population size (or for army size) it is much lower, but still high when compared with the recent, lower-energy, middle-eastern conflicts. Furthermore, that number probably doesn't include the losses of the Donbas militias. Equipment-wise, although rus probably doesn't have scarcity of armour, it would seem that they suffered more losses than expected, at least in logistics vehicles. To that we could add the damages caused by the economic, diplomatic, and mediatic sides of the war (waged by "the west" rather than Ukraine). So, I do think they have "crossed the Rubicon", partly by being pushed across, and already "paid the price" (or "a price"), and it would make sense, then, for them to try to get get something equivalent in return. However, I'm increasingly doubting Rus' ability to achieve such a "total victory" (beyond the official demands) under the present conditions. To wit:
- No full mobilization, no war economy, but the limited scope of a "special military operation"
- For whatever reason (maybe concern for collateral damage, maybe fear of nato AA launchers) rus has not been using its air force to its full potential, relying instead on high-precision but much more costly missiles, rather than aerial bombardment
- Although it is conceivable that ukr suffered more losses than rus, the former doesn't lack manpower, while the latter entered the conflict with only ~190k troops (a fraction of its standing army)
- Ukr basically has unending supply of nato weaponry, and ~4 weeks into the conflict rus still hasn't strangled that supply
- Rus doesn't want to unduly spite the civilian population so it's not putting pressure on cities to surrender. E.g. electricity and communications have mostly been left alone, water/food have not been touched, gas continues to flow (and transit fees continue to be paid)
- Ukr has no compunction in using schools, hospitals, shopping malls, residential buildings, civilian cars, etc., to shelter themselves and their military equipment (a Geneva convention violation) and then cry "war crime" and beg for nato to enter the war when they are targeted
- Rus is not targeting the Ukr govt
- Rus advances have been slow for the past 2 weeks, very slow or nil during the past few days, and there may have been a retreat in the area around Nikolaev (and perhaps elsewhere too, though claims are contradictory)
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 >>/47096/
(continued)
In these circumstances, the only way I see for such a "total victory" is mass support among civs and mass surrender among troops. But this scenario (which has already failed to materialize once, during the first few days of the conflict), is unlikely because after ~8 years (since the maidan coup, or ~18 years since the "orange revolution") of systematic sidelining of pro-rus people, not many of them are now in position of sufficient power to act as collaborators and lead people to defect. This doesn't mean there aren't many pro-rus people, there surely are (at least in ex-novorossia) as evidenced by various cases of them leaking the location of ukr military. But they are mostly powerless and likely to face repercussions if they rise up.
Barring that, a "total victory" (i.e. ukrainian capitulation or, say, >70% territory captured) might yet be achievable but I think rus would have to go into full war footing for that, and stop trying to be "gentle". If that doesn't happen, I think rus may still achieve a victory, on paper and on territory, but when weighed against the costs some will argue it was a defeat (like some have done with the winter war).
In any case, one mustn't forget that "sunk costs" arguments can lead to spiraling losses. A careful weighing of costs, benefits, and risks must be done. But it is almost impossible for us to know what those are while facts are still behind this thick mediatico-politico-diplomatico-propagandistic fog of war.

Other stuff:
- As I mentioned, couple of weeks ago, the Poland-based Protasevych-founded "Nexta" channel was posting fakes made from video game footage. A few days ago, Ukraine's official ministry of defence account on twatter posted footage game Arma3 claiming that it shows russian helicopters shot down over Kherson: http://archive.fo/sgdzX
Media all over the natosphere mindlessly reproduced it.
This may have been the original source: https://invidious.fdn.fr/watch?v=Y6oLOdrQNRc
- Barbarism: There's another video of what looks like a ukr soldier killing a man by stabbing him in face, eyes, and throat. ISIS-tier butchery

 >>/47093/
> It has square around red star that is identified as remains of new UA logo painted over old one using not so good paint.

Interesting. I found this pic. In the middle photo one can see 2 corners of what might be a star below their logo, and the other two photos have that square-ish area with a curved bottom. So, IIUC, that theory says that the logo, painted over the star, was lost in the flight or in the crash (due to any combination of pressure, temperature, fire). So, if Ukr launched it, it gives them a way out of the false-flag accusation.
 >>/47092/
Oh fug :DDD

 >>/46822/
> NFKRZ
> That is very useful.

He moved to Georgia now. Seems like Russians migrating will be a common occurrence soon.

> Boris
> That one sounds like a joke. Just can't take that exaggerated fake accent srsly.
It's a fake accent? really? I thought that it was genuine. 


 >>/47082/
> There has been some degree of barbarism spreading over ukrainian cities/towns. There are dozens of videos showing civilians being publicly punished and humiliated by an assortment of soldiers, police, para-militaries, civilian mobs, and whatnot. 

Well it's a war and invasion happening right where they live. Ofc most people aren't going to be level headed. It can happen anywhere
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 >>/47024/
> I had relative on Ukraine, we lost contact with her and genuinely though she was killed. She lived in a literal warzone. Thankfully managed to escape to Poland and sent us a message she's allright.

Glad someone else is feeling what I feel. What's worse is not knowing when you'll hear back from them. Raly stressful

 >>/46993/
Updates on my post. Some of the people I know in Ukraine that I managed to talk to are ok. But they're scared over how crazy things are over there atm
 >>/47092/
Or that too. But maybe they just put Livemaps up so that she looked like she was doing something military like but did not show what they actually use. One would hope that was the case...

 >>/47094/
True, technically they are but they still fin into that grey area.

In another video I saw of Chechens, the taller grey beard one that you see next to Kadyrov in some of the images(he must be some kind of important person) was firing an Ak loaded with tracer fully automatically, yeah, that looks like it was for social media.

 >>/47095/
I read it, it was interesting.

 >>/47096/
All true, and while yes the forces Russia is bringing to bear are minimal compared to what it could, we don't know the reasons for that nor what the real situation on the ground is or what the real plan of the Russian army is nor what operational timetable that would be based on is. It could be that they think they have this in control, that they are just going to pound Ukrainian infrastructure and logistics, slowly take ground and sure up their own logistics and then maybe when it looks like Ukraine has been softened enough, then they will speed things up. Or maybe they do intend to bring more forces in at some point but later on, I don't know.

 >>/47097/
Tasmania is part of Ukraine.
 >>/47096/
> probably doesn't include the losses of the Donbas militias. 
That is my suspicion too.
> Rus advances have been slow for the past 2 weeks, very slow or nil during the past few days
The article here:  >>/47095/ describes how they approach the siege of Mariupol. The recon, the attacks, how they gain ground by the house. And how the Chechens rode into the town and died.
> Ukr basically has unending supply of nato weaponry
That's a bit exaggerated.
> Rus is not targeting the Ukr govt 
They made big fuss about it how Chechen hit squad targeting Zelensky was neutralized. Probably wasn't even true that he was targeted, but every failure would just give munition to propaganda. I'm sure they are kept safe. Some might not be in Ukraine at all. And not just govt matters there, but the oligarch who are sure already fled the country (might be they weren't there when the war started to begin with). Also they're saying Zelensky is there, but is he really? I seem to recall a video featuring him where they used green screen for the production. I bet they set up some nice studio for his new career, an actor playing politician playing an actor playing a politician (so many layers).

 >>/47101/
> It's a fake accent? really? I thought that it was genuine. 
Are you kiddings with me?

 >>/47105/
Maybe Zelensky is in Tasmania now.

 >>/47106/
Well she can show support, nothing wrong with that.
 >>/47097/
> but when weighed against the costs some will argue it was a defeat (like some have done with the winter war).
The Winter War was a psychological defeat with long-lasting impacts on Finnish opinion about Russian control and self-confidence in dealing with Russia as well as on international Finnish reputation. Also a full defeat for the puppet Finnish communist government.
Depending on how this war goes, Ukrainians might feel more and more they are a cohesive nation-state capable of organizing and sustaining a war effort. So far there has been no meltdown of morale and organization. To make matters worse, pro-Russian opinion may lose even more ground, and the most pro-Russian parts of the country will be the most damaged by combat. Russia will have more gains as the war gets long and bitter, but their quality will be lower.
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Another cease-fire in Mariupol to allow civilians to leave.
This is at least the second. These also hampers Russian offensive, and allows Ukrainian forces to recover, reorganize.
Might be important that even liveuamap paints the whole region around Mariupol red, there is no way for supply arriving to those who still resist, and breaking out isn't a possibility either.
Also have to note that large areas in the east is painted as in Russian control, tho previously they only painted the roads red. I think this is a definite change.
More also check the new on the right:
> This year Ukraine's GDP will contract 20% while Russian economy will shrink 10%: EBRD
The source is the twitter of AFP news Agency. Isn't a bit early to make such predictions? Both can go very well lower.
How much economic activity is going on in Ukraine? Most of the country is untouched, although the large settlements of the east plus Kiev are the stages of fighting.
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The Russians have said that phase 1 is over and now they are going to begin a new phase that will mean taking Donbass. The Ukrainians are pushing back in local counter attacks but it's unclear how hard the Russians are actually trying to hold those areas, it seems they are repositioning and preparing for a new offensive.

I still expect them to try to take Dnipro and to cut the forces in the Donbass off that way, or to at least try to, once they take the rest of Izium they will be able to move south and west with much more ease. The Ukrainians might push the Russians back even further east of Kiev but I doubt they will dislodge the positions north of Kiev. The Russian lines east of Kiev are not really all that tenable as they are vulnerable to attack from many angles, it really deepens on how badly the Russians want to hold it though.
 >>/47124/
I assume phase 1 would be crushing Ukrainian military if we go by Colonel General Sergei Rudskoy's speech? By that they want to liberate the (people's) republics, without the interference of the Ukrainian military. For this they have to neutralize it, because otherwise those could endlessly butt into the matter. So they opted with all out war on the whole Ukraine, and not on a limited operational area.
Now - if it is true what's in that speech - they crippled the Ukrainian army, and they are busy with holding Kiev, Chernigov, Sumi, Kharkov, Mikolaev and Krivoy Rog. In the South East corner god knows what the situation is.
Or maybe phase 1 is connecting Crimea with the republics? Because that crushing doesn't sound complete in reality.
 >>/47124/
> but I doubt they will dislodge the positions north of Kiev.

Because the Russians are already leaving them on their own... I was not wholly wrong I guess. I thought they would try to stay there to keep pressure on the capital but then having them there is costly as it is right near the capital of Ukrainian, it's not strictly necessary for taking Donbas either.
 >>/47125/
Maybe, it could also be surrounding certain cities, taking Mariupol(or near enough of it), connecting Crimea to the Donbass, taking Kherson and so establishing a foothold on the west side of the Dniper etc. Hitting Ukrainian supply depots and such would probably be a part as well.
 >>/47128/
> there is costly as it is right near the capital of Ukrainian, it's not strictly necessary for taking Donbas either.
They are tying down great amount of forces.

 >>/47129/
Perhaps. I'm really curious about phase 2. Right now in the north it's all withdrawing or regrouping (depending who says it).

 >>/47130/
That doesn't look good for Russia, getting struck at home.
If Ukrainians managed then:
- this makes Russia look weak;
- the demilitarization doesn't go well.
If Russians did this to blame Ukrainians:
- can be used as an excuse to continue the war;
- I don't think they really need any excuse to continue at this point;
- an Ukrainian strike makes them looks weak;
- it creates the appearance that the demilitarization effort doesn't go well.

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